FWD | When Should Parents Talk to the Coach?

⏩ In Episode 3 of Forward, Joe Clemente and Kevin Mulhearn tackle one of the biggest challenges in youth sports: knowing how—and when—to communicate with your child’s coach.

From coaching your own son or daughter to navigating playing time, lineup decisions, and difficult conversations, they discuss:

• When parents should talk to a coach—and when they shouldn’t
 • The challenges of coaching your own child and avoiding “daddy ball” accusations
 • How to choose coaches you can trust
 • Why athletes need to learn to advocate for themselves
 • What coaches are really thinking when they make playing time decisions
 • How parents can support their children without becoming part of the problem
 • Why independence—not dependence—is the ultimate goal of youth sports

Whether you’re a parent, coach, grandparent, or athlete, this conversation offers practical advice for building healthier relationships between families and coaches while helping young athletes grow into confident, independent adults.

Forward is a podcast from Hard Knock Press dedicated to building Better Athletes. Better People.

📘 The Long Ride Home: How to Help Your Kids Shine in Youth Sports (Without Driving Them Crazy) by Joe Clemente is available now at 🌐 hardknockpress.com

🎙️ Subscribe to Forward: New episodes every week featuring honest conversations about youth sports, parenting, coaching, leadership, and helping kids thrive—both on and off the field. Available everywhere you get your podcasts.

👍🏻 If you enjoyed this episode, please like, subscribe, and share it with another sports parent, coach, or athlete.

📩 Media, speaking engagements, sponsorships, and business inquiries: hello@hardknockpress.com

💬 We’d love to hear from you:
 When was the moment you realized it was time to step back and let your child advocate for themselves? Leave a comment below or connect with us on social media.

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© Hard Knock Press. All Rights Reserved.

Transcript

Kevin T. Mulhearn 0:10

Welcome to Forward, a podcast from Hard Knock Press where we explore the ideas, stories, and conversations that help build better athletes and better people. I'm Kevin Mulhern alongside Joe Clemente. Let's get started Folks, welcome to episode three of our podcast, "Forward: Better Athletes, Better People." Today we're having a very interesting, conversation about, something that every parent who has a child playing sports faces, which is how to deal with your child's coaches during his sports journey. Always interesting, always complicated, sometimes really positive, sometimes not so positive. so we're gonna start, if we could, I guess we'd like to have you as a parent think about one overarching theme every time a decision im- impacting your child with his or her coaches is what I'm doing with this coach helping my child or is it helping me? it needs to be the former, not the latter, And the other issue, which we're gonna talk about at length, is w-when and how should I talk to my child's coach? And as we're gonna talk about in a few minutes, the answer to that question varies depending on the age of the child and other cir- circumstances and variables. We're gonna go, Joe, into detail about those issues. So the first thing I wanna talk about, Joe, t- with you is, coaching y- your own kid. A lot of invested parents are their kids' first coaches. I know in the Don Bosco Prep baseball program, almost every dad whose kid played varsity baseball at some point was his kid's coach. and I think there was a mom, ear-early on. So there's a lot of coaching going on of these, these high school baseball players by their parents early. If you could, say hello to the audience, first of all, and please tell us i- in general some pros and cons about the decision to coach your own child.

Joe Clemente 2:17

Hey everyone. Kev, I appreciate it. excited about this segment. So going into that conversation is, like there's a couple of trap doors there, right? when you first start out as a parent, and again, we've all done this and, I learned firsthand that I have a background, right? So like me as a dad getting into this when we had kids, like my wife had been "Hey, this is so exciting. you played baseball at a high level, played football at a high level." she expected me to be like, the guy, and when they're ready to go, you're gonna teach them and train them." And now again, for us, like we're in that line of work, right? We own training

Kevin T. Mulhearn 2:54

training facilities- so Frannie didn't expect you to teach piano, but she did expect you to teach your kids how to play baseball. Yeah. Is that

Joe Clemente 2:59

piano, yeah, again, it started out, they go through T-ball, and then they get into coach pitch, and, again, as a dad, I just had so much fun being there, and just watching the kids, just have fun with their friends. And I think what ends up happening with all parents that are in this, as they get more involved, right? our mindset as parents are, "Hey, listen," you're famous for this, do everything at 100%, right? You wanna-- If you're gonna do anything, be great at it." Okay? And that's the mindset that we have, right? I would like to think that the majority of us do, okay? So, when I started, I was with a buddy of mine, his kids, right? And that's how it starts out, like a bunch of town kids, they're all friends, let's play. And then as they continue to move on, kids get better, some kids decide that they wanna go play other sports, they wanna focus on other things, whatever it might be, okay? so then, like that group or that core stays together, and then you start coaching. And then as that core of friends, start to do better and become more successful, then you have parents that are outside of that group, and kids that are outside of that group that are seeing success, and now they wanna be a part of it. So now it all of a sudden went from fun, happy-go-lucky, I'm gonna just coach my kid, I'm gonna coach my buddy's kid, right? We're gonna teach them the right way, but let's let them go out and have fun, and they'll be successful. Now it turns into, "Hey, wait a minute," "we're getting bombarded by people asking us to be a part of the team. What can we build? I'll offer you this." "I'll build you a facility." it just, it gets really crazy.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 4:41

Facility, like it just, it gets really crazy but if I could interrupt for a second. for you, coaching was natural. It was like a s- almost a second skin for you. You knew you were gonna coach... You were a coach before you even had kids, right?

Joe Clemente 4:51

Yeah, but here's the thing. this was the first time that I was coaching my own kid. I didn't know what it was gonna be like as a first-time dad, think about the reason why this book started, right? What was the... I mean, I was terrible at it you

Kevin T. Mulhearn 5:05

I, I assure you I weren't terrible, but, but y- you learn. you learn and improve and you pick up on things. Yeah. I'll tell you, the first coaching I ever did of my son Dennis was, m- Pearl River Mighty Midgets Soccer. And I, I know nothing

Joe Clemente 5:18

That would've been fun. I had to see that.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 5:19

I never played soccer. I told my wife, who's, South American, that I was gonna coach Dennis in soccer, and her response was "You can't coach soccer. You, you know nothing about soccer. You're gonna embarrass me, you're gonna embarrass yourself, and you're gonna embarrass our son." I said, "Well, they s- they, they say they need coaches, so I'm

Joe Clemente 5:38

Volunteers, right?

Kevin T. Mulhearn 5:39

th- then they're not gonna, say no So basically, I coached a bunch of six-year-olds, and I enjoyed it until about eight when the, when my two best players on the team were fighting every time they played. phys- physically fist fighting, so I was w- was more referee than coach at that point. But soccer was, for me, coaching soccer was just to be active and get my kid on a field doing some kind of competitive, sport, which was positive. but, he had fun. I had fun coaching him. And it was, s- something we did before baseball 'cause I, I didn't have Dennis play T-ball. It was-- I thought T-ball was a waste of time. I saw all the kids, looking at the dandelions and look at the planes overhead, and nobody was looking at the baseball and focusing on the game. I thought it was just, counterproductive. So I didn't have Dennis play Little League until he was eight. And at eight, I decided to, to be Little League coach. At least there I was in my wheelhouse 'cause I was a high school and college baseball player, so that decision w- wasn't that hard. but, what would you advise parents as far as the decision, the threshold decision to become a coach? What are the pros and what are the cons, about that decision?

Joe Clemente 6:44

Yeah, I definitely think, just to have the relationship, you gotta do it, right? Whether you're good, bad, indifferent, you'll figure it out, right? You're an adult. if you have some background, it helps, right? if you know what you're doing a little bit, it definitely makes it easier. But ultimately, listen, Kev, you agree with me, you have to. they're so young, let 'em have fun. let 'em go out and play. You're gonna, you're gonna... you gotta teach them the basics, right? you gotta teach em how to catch and throw and run. they're gonna hit. There's gonna be a ton of things that you see that are gonna be like, "Oh man, we gotta correct that," But at the same time, you just want them to have fun. As they get older, things get a little bit more locked down, and then you figure it out. But I would tell you, as a coach that, has coached at the highest level or, played there too, you gotta do it, Because it's more about the relationship, Your kids love that you're out there, my, my son Tony, played basketball, and they were in the, the Catholic League or whatever it is, and, they didn't have a coach. CYO. The CYO. And let me... Dude, let me tell you something, man. that's a different animal. And they were like, "Hey, we need a coach." the, the director asked me to do it. Kev, that was the hardest thing I've ever done, thinking like, I'm just a coach and I'm gonna help these guys run out there and play basketball. Dude, I felt so bad for the kids There was just so much that goes into that. So I do give out a ton of respect. Like I, I shout out to all the coaches that are coaching other sports, the dads and s- or moms. it's hard. It's hard, but, it's definitely well worth it. Definitely well worth it.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 8:14

And it's interesting 'cause coaching your own kid also presents another set of challenges, especially as you get older and into the more competitive realm. inevitably, w-when you coach your own kid, you're gonna be hit with charges of favoritism and nepotism. It, a-as sure as the, the day is long, that's gonna happen. If Ken Griffey Senior was coaching K-Ken Griffey Junior in middle school, some knucklehead parent's gonna be saying, "Hey, Ken Griffey's doing daddy ball. That, that kid's

Joe Clemente 8:41

Daddy ball. Daddy

Kevin T. Mulhearn 8:43

he doing playing center field and batting third?" Th-that would happen. That's gonna happen.

Joe Clemente 8:47

Doesn't matter

Kevin T. Mulhearn 8:48

every parent I've ever seen who's coached his child, especially at the higher levels, is faced with those kind of criticisms, fair or not. And most often they're not fair. I, I remember one time w-w... My dad coached, me and my brother from the time we were eight until e-18, till we were seniors in high school. And I re-re-remember at the end we were playing, Babe Ruth League, and, my dad was coaching. My brother and I were both in the lineup. At this point, we were both first-team all-league poly prep baseball players. So we had our resumes. we had our, a, a decent, history of success in baseball. We weren't-- We were good b- We were both good players. Both played in college. Decent players. And there were a couple guys who weren't playing the positions they wanted or in the batting order they wanted, and they started the campaign, "What the hell are the Mulherns doing playing on this team? they should be sitting. They're not as good as the guys who aren't playing." And, I remember m-my father just scoffed it off 'cause he had a really tough skin and he couldn't care less what some knucklehead thought about that. But it really bothered me th-that, that even at 18 with a history of success in baseball and, recognized success, there was still parents out there who were making that accusation of the, of daddy ball and favoritism. And, it was hurtful. now the way to counter it was just go out and have fun, play your game, and not- Have

Joe Clemente 10:08

Be successful. That's right

Kevin T. Mulhearn 10:10

right. But, every, every kid who plays for his dad as a coach, has some s-some iteration of that, that he has to deal with, every single person.

Joe Clemente 10:20

Every single

Kevin T. Mulhearn 10:21

Every single one. And, and it's a challenge. I don't think it's n-not nearly as bad young, at younger ages when you're coaching your kid in Little League eight, nine, 10. Nobody really cares that much about results. I shouldn't say that. People do care a lot about results. but at eight, nine, 10, ge-generally, you get a little bit of a leeway coaching your own kid. The older the kid gets, the more scrutiny there is on the parent-coach relationship. You agree?

Joe Clemente 10:45

100%. No ma- and that's anywhere you go. I have a ton of respect for a friend of ours that we know really well, right? Jeff Becker, right? Think about Jeff. Jeff was, my assistant coach at Bosco, right? So he was my assistant on JV. he had Eric, who was, is, was a freshman. He was gonna be playing varsity, okay? And then he has another son that's coming up, the, the following year, Nicky, who is an absolute stud, too, and now all of a sudden he's trapped, right? I remember him actually stepping away from it because he didn't want it... First of all, he wanted to go see Eric play, but he didn't want, he didn't want that, stigmatism of, "Hey, Becker's in the program. They're gonna get... there's favoritism there." No, they were the two of the best athletes to ever come through Don Bosco Prep, it's proven, right? Both drafted in the second round. hopefully for them they're gonna end up in the big league soon. But,

Kevin T. Mulhearn 11:37

Hopefully for them they're gonna end up in the big leagues soon. I- I'm hoping in three or four years to be able to buy a ticket and watch them both play.

Joe Clemente 11:40

Yeah, abso- absolutely. They better send us one. You know what

Kevin T. Mulhearn 11:43

I'm not gonna be that bold. no, I'm just kidding.

Joe Clemente 11:45

just

Kevin T. Mulhearn 11:45

I'll f- I'll find my way into- I'm giving you that. I'm giving the ticket. Sending you there. Oh, I'm just kidding. I'll find

Joe Clemente 11:46

Guys, if you're out there, I'm getting a ticket. Send me one. No, I'm just kidding. But,

Kevin T. Mulhearn 11:51

Yeah.

Joe Clemente 11:52

So you see that everywhere. no matter what you do, I, I dealt with it this year, right? For the first time. I was, again, being the JV coach, at Bosco. My son was a freshman, okay? it was really hard to be able to separate myself from that, the freshman program because I didn't want parents saying "Oh, your kid's... he's there because..." But guess what? Whether I was there, and I did keep myself away as much as I could 'cause I, I didn't want the pressure on the freshman coaches, right? Because I knew that those guys were gonna be coming to me next. I, I... It's still there, no matter what, and that's gonna happen from T-ball until, they get to college. Because, usually in college there's only a handful of kids that end up playing for their dad, there, there's no way around that

Kevin T. Mulhearn 12:41

Other college coaches coach their sons? Yeah. Yeah

Joe Clemente 12:45

I think a, like most of them, try to stay away from it. Like I know a couple of coaches right now that I've seen at showcases all summer, and, their sons have been playing on our, on our team. and they're actually getting recruited by other teams, and like I would ask them, "Hey man, y- if this doesn't work out at this school, you think you're gonna go play for your dad?" And he's like, "No." They're like, "I'm not playing for my dad, not at the college level." And I was like, "You know what? That's a really unselfish thing, dude, if you think about that." 'Cause he could've, right? he's his dad, but he understands that the type of pressure that he's under, right? Because listen, when you get to that level, you gotta win. At varsity baseball, especially around here, you gotta win. that's the bottom line. That's how you keep your job. again, I think

Kevin T. Mulhearn 13:27

and as a kid who's playing for his parent, you gotta be tough. You gotta have a little tougher edge. You wanna look just this year at, at Don Bosco Prep, you have Mike Rooney, Jr. playing shortstop and, succeeding Eric Becker, second round pick, Nicky Becker, second round pick. Not only was he playing a, a premium position at Don Bosco, shortstop, he was also succeeding two guys who, like you said, were two of the best baseball players who ever played for Don Bosco, and both have pretty good Major League futures ahead of them, I think. and that's pressure that, to do that. And I give Michael a lot of credit. he put his head down, he played his butt off and did the best he could and had a really good career.

Joe Clemente 14:06

listen, you and I have known Junior for a long time. He played for me too on JV, and you and I both know he's tough as nails, that kid. he is, he is tough as nails, and he had to be

Kevin T. Mulhearn 14:15

and he does a- all the little things right on the baseball field. He does. the, the defense, the running, the bunting, a- anything that needs to be done to help win a game, he can do. And, and that makes him valuable. Very valuable. but he was dealing with the potential stigma of being the coach's son his entire varsity career, and that had to add... There's enough, there's a lot of pressure on a Don Bosco baseball player to begin with. To have y- your dad be the head coach, I can only imagine the pressure, that Mike Junior had la- the last two years. Oh. And I think he, he handled it really brilliantly. I think K- Mike and Kelly no doubt helped quite a bit with that. But, I give props to, to that kid for handling that. It wasn't easy.

Joe Clemente 14:54

Right, 100%.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 14:54

Oh, 100%. Yeah. And you're dealing now with the s- the same thing potentially with your son, 'cause he's coming up the program. He's gonna be a sophomore. the, these are challenges. I've f- fortunately, I had n- no affiliation coaching Don Bosco Prep, so I didn't have to worry about that with my own son. But, it, it is something that, adds a, a different l- layer of pressure on, on, on the parent. And I'm sure the, the parent has the pressure, too. When you're coaching your own kid, y- you might be second-guessing yourself. "Should I be doing this? Am I doing this 'cause he's my kid, or am I doing this 'cause he's the best kid in the program to help?" these are all, all decisions, that, that are, that are impossible to delineate sometimes. but I do think that the coaches that we know, I know Mike Rooney and, a lot of the coaches who have k- kids playing for them. I know the Spitaleri, Yeah kids who played at Glen Rock were tremendous players. their dads put their kids in 'cause they were gonna help the team win and however they did it. and they were k- I think at times when you're playing, in the high school level, you have to be coach first, parent second at some point, and that's not an easy thing to do. Yeah.

Joe Clemente 15:55

You have no choice, especially at this level

Kevin T. Mulhearn 15:57

But your balance is, your heart says parent first, coach second, but your head h- has to say coach first, parent second. And that's not easy.

Joe Clemente 16:05

the other part of it is, you're coaching your kid, right? I'm sure this, Runes has probably been going through this for a long time. you're coaching your kid, right? And all eyes are on your kid and then you, right? So if your kid goes out and it's like, it's always amplified. What I mean by that is like an error. say he makes an error, which is not a big deal, right? What do we usually tell like the kids if they make an error? "Hey, shake it off. Turn the page. Let's get the next one." And again, if it's not your kid or the, the parents in the stands are like, "Hey, no big deal." The, but what ends up happening, right? Mike or Joey or some- they make a m- they make a mistake and they're like, "Oh, see? My kid should be there." He's only there because he's, he's his dad. And it's... And you're like, wait a minute. That's,

Kevin T. Mulhearn 16:49

his dad. And it's, and you're like, "Wait a minute. That's-" Again, and the same statements would be made if Ken Griffey Jr.- Yeah s- struck

Joe Clemente 16:54

No

Kevin T. Mulhearn 16:54

when he's playing for his dad as a coach. They all look at that guy, look at that swing. It's such a big swing. he's only playing because his father's in the mana- is the manager.

Joe Clemente 17:02

It's terrible, and people don't understand, like we have to manage that as coaches. we actually have to be so on top of that because we never want it to look like there's favoritism, right? We wanna make sure that other kids are getting a shot. owning a facility and having club teams, the one thing that I've learned over all these years, okay? Whether it- it's club teams, Little League, high school, baseball, whatever it is, okay? Every year multiple people come to us and they start talking about like, "It was daddy ball. It was daddy ball. I'll be like, "When you're talking about daddy ball, like what happened, first of all? And second of all, the coach that you had, the father that you had that was volunteering his time," what was his background? And like most of them come to me and like, "Oh, he played varsity baseball and he played some college I'm like, "So he has a background, like he has knowledge," right? y- like it could've been really unfortunate, you could've been like, Jimbo Bob, like from, farming 101 who's never played a sport or anything like that, and, had no clue what to do, showed up to volunteer. So you should be like thankful at least somebody had a background. Now, the thing that parents, and this is going back to the original question you asked me, right? The problem with the parents today is that we are putting a rating on our kids, right? Or on their kids at seven, eight, nine, 10 years old, 11 years old, 12 years old. Kev, you and I both know it, it doesn't matter. It doesn't mean anything. You gotta get to the big field. it does matter about development, right? and that word is very cliche. Everybody uses development. But the bottom line is, th- their... Parents have to understand, if you have a coach, okay, first and foremost, that cares about your kids, that shows up, right? That wants to see them get better, that allows them to have fun and makes it fun, and your kids wanna be there, like that's all you need to ask for. I- one of our best coaches in my organization, he played high school baseball, played varsity baseball, okay? And, he's a local guy. He is the best. PZ is the best. His kids, he retains kids. I can't tell you how many kids come to us and are like, "We wanna play for Coach PZ. We wanna play for him. We wanna play for him." The, the guy is awesome. He shows up. The kids love him. He's all about the kids. He communicates with the parents. He involves everybody. They go out. listen, not everything is about wins and losses. It's about team unity, and it's incredible. That guy, some parents would come to me and be like, he doesn't have the background to coach a high level." listen, dude. If you think your kid is that high level, then you need to go somewhere else, because that's what we focus on, right? Family first, right? The culture is so important.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 19:57

Right? The culture is so important T- two more issues I want, I just wanna touch on briefly, before you start talking about how to talk to coaches. But, when you're coaching your own kid, don't you think that there's an inclination to treat your kid, tougher than you treat any other kid on the

Joe Clemente 20:10

I knew you were gonna say that. You and I both did it. That's where this book came from, right? that's exactly what it is. Because unfortunately, now I'm gonna tell you something, and you're, you can agree to disagree, but I know you'll probably agree with me. But we feel the pressure, right? it's the... Our kid runs out there and yes, we were fortunate that they were good, right? But they run out there, they're kids, they're playing they're gonna do all the drills. It's us as parents that are feeling the pressure, right? So now we make it harder. we're almost trying to show everybody, all the other parents, that I'm gonna be tougher on my kid to make sure that you don't think it's daddy ball

Kevin T. Mulhearn 20:51

volleyball A- and I think y- that's part of it, but I think the bigger part is that you see some talent in your kid, and you wanna foster it and nurture it. and you also wanna, wanna teach him or her how to be tough and how to face adversity and conquer it. I remember once I was coaching Dennis when he was nine. He was pitching. And there was a play, pop up right near the catcher, and he tried to run over to catch it, and he s- wound up scraping his knee. So he's limping around, scraping his knee. He said, "Dad, I, my, my knee." I said, "Dennis, it's a scrape." Said, I don't know. I don't know if I can pitch." And I got in his face, and the other coach, I remember the other coach, first name was Dennis, and he said, "Oh man, this guy is such a jackass," 'cause he-- I'm really way after my kid. I said, I used some bl- blue language inappropriately and said,

Joe Clemente 21:35

You?

Kevin T. Mulhearn 21:36

Yeah. Can you believe it? but I said, with a colorful metaphor or two thrown in that, "Get back on the mound, and let's stop the nonsense." and remember, this is a guy who played, a championship game with a broken clavicle. Yep. So he had a scrape on his knee, and he was my best pitcher, and I wasn't about to pull him out because he had a scrape on his knee. And, but I also didn't like the fact that he was even asking out because he had a scrape on his knee, and I lit into him a little bit, believe it or not. Well, well,

Joe Clemente 22:06

to be learned, right? There's definitely

Kevin T. Mulhearn 22:07

I thought

Joe Clemente 22:08

to be learned

Kevin T. Mulhearn 22:08

that was somewhat productive coaching, although i- if I, if I could do it over again, I would've been a little bit calmer, a little less, expletive-filled. I would've been a, a little nicer about it.

Joe Clemente 22:20

But you would have gotten the same result. would have just done it a different way, right?

Kevin T. Mulhearn 22:24

little less crass. Yeah. And,

Joe Clemente 22:26

all we're talking about here

Kevin T. Mulhearn 22:27

That's all we're talking about here yeah. but that, that was, the entirety of Dennis's career when he played for me, when I coached him Little League from eight till he was 12. and I was always much, much tougher on Dennis than anybody else. And, I think most co- I've seen most coaches, other coaches. You had the story last week about the boy who had the rattle on his bat and he didn't have a hit. so I know we're not the only ones, of that mindset and that ilk. it is a challenge to coach your own kid, and it's a challenge to be, a, a good parent and a good coach at the same time. Not easy.

Joe Clemente 22:59

It's funny that everything that we talk about relates to pressure, right? It relates to pressure, right? And how we handle pressure as either athletes like as the kids do, or us as parents or coaches. and that's where everything is, derives from. So as long as we can handle that, everything becomes much easier. But there's always gonna be pressure, and that's okay

Kevin T. Mulhearn 23:22

The, there's the one final issue I want to talk to you about regarding coaching your own kid is how to know when to step aside. And I can relate to you when I realized, that I needed to step aside and let guys who knew more than me about baseball coach my, my child. Freshman year, Dennis had a pretty poor year o- offensively, but decent. But at the end, he really started slumping, had a really bad last nine of 10 at-bats. We're playing the, the day before Bosco's first, state championship game, Mike Rooney's getting his varsity ready for the state championship game. I think it was against St. Augustine in 2022. And the night before, we're playing out at Bosco with, Watica. Watica had a game at Bosco. That, Dennis has an awful game. He strikes out twice. He gets up the third time, tying run on, winning run on third base, one out, and he takes a really pathetic hack and just hits a weak pop-up to first base. And, M- Mike Rooney, who's batting behind him, hits a line drive base hit to left field, so we win the game. Happy day. Now Mike, Rooney Senior, he's got the state championship game. He ha- at this point, he's never won a state title, even though he's had some really good programs and really good teams. Hasn't won yet. the night before that game, he looks at, at, at Dennis and said, "Hey, Dennis, come over here. I want to work with you in the cage for a few minutes." He spends 45 minutes, not five minutes, not 15 minutes, 45 minutes working with Dennis on some drills, hitting the ball up the middle, hit, hit this side of the cage, hit that side of the cage, try to top the ball here. Just really fine-tuning his swing in a way that I realized this guy knows way more about this than I do. I've been trying to get my kid, and I was a, a, you know, college baseball player. I wasn't a slub. I knew enough a- about baseball to coach kids in Little League. But I watched Mike coach my son for 45 minutes there, and I said to myself, "I need to step aside and let coaches who know more than me do their jobs and work with my kid." And that was the end of my c- my coaching days, for Dennis. and I think it, it was a blessing, and I honestly, I also really appreciate, M- Mike Rooney has a reputation as a tough guy sometimes and a tough coach. But I also, I told Dennis after that evening, I said, "This is a special coach, that this guy's gonna spend 45 minutes with you, the struggling freshman, the day before his state championship final." And I said, "That's a special guy who's willing to do that and a special coach, and stay with this program because he obviously thinks enough of you to spend time with you, to work with you on this." But, th-this is a special place, and if you can figure things out, it's gonna be a good experience. And after a really tough freshman year, that was how the season ended. But that was the death knell for my coaching career 'cause I realized at that point I needed to let go and let Mike a-and you and, and Mike Dwyer and Jim Watkin and everybody else, Brian Gioli, everybody else who was coaching, just let them do their jobs and coach my kid. And I tried my best to take a step back and just-

Joe Clemente 26:34

It's hard though, right? It's really hard

Kevin T. Mulhearn 26:37

Hard to do. really we talked about this last week, too. it's so tempting to be so hypercritical. "Dennis, you gotta do this." I To this day, I It drives me crazy when he takes strikes, like fastballs down the middle, doesn't swing at. I Tuesday, this week-

Joe Clemente 26:50

Here he

Kevin T. Mulhearn 26:51

Watching, the game.

Joe Clemente 26:51

Here it comes, Kat. Here it comes.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 26:53

first two pitch- fastballs down the middle, he takes for strikes. I'm, and I'm going nuts to myself. I'm saying and I'm s- I'm saying to myself, you can't say anything 'cause, you gotta read Joe's book."

Joe Clemente 27:02

That's it, man

Kevin T. Mulhearn 27:03

But at the same time, the instinct for me is just to swing the bat and, and be aggressive. A-and he's 19 years old. He's a starting player in college. He knows what he's doing, and I still have that instinct to push, and criticize on something. and he went up and had two walks that game. He was the leadoff hitter. he had one hit and two walks. And I said, "You know what? At the end of the day, he's figuring things out in his own way." He had He was on base three out of five times. he had one hit, two walks. he did his job. He got on base three out of five times. That's a, a 600 ba- on-base percentage. he knows what he's doing. I have to just relax and just let him do it. so hard though. E-even n- even now, it's a challenge. And it was really hard when he was younger. When he was 11, 12, 13, forget it. I didn't have the restraint, the maturity that I have now. So I wanna talk a little bit about, how to deal with your kids' coaches as, as he or she de- develops. what is the biggest mistake that parents make when dealing with their child's coach?

Joe Clemente 28:06

So look, there's a million different ways to look at this. I try to keep it as simple as possible. When you decide to sign your kid up, know who the coaches are, right? Who- what you're dealing with. Talk to them, figure out what their background is, and then at that point, you as a parent need to ask yourself do I trust these guys? Do I trust these women? with my kid. If you decide that, yes, this is where I want them to be, this is who I want them to be with, then you're gonna have to, you're gonna have to ride it out a little bit and trust what they're doing, for your kids. how they're teaching them, practices, games, all that good stuff, okay? it's never going to be perfect. parents have to understand that. it's just never gonna be perfect where like how you would treat your kid at home. Does that make sense? you're not gonna show up to a field and a coach, a volunteer coach... Again, I keep saying the word volunteer because these people are devoting their time, right? Not getting paid, right? To be able to help your kids develop in youth sports, okay? So we have to tip our caps a little bit to these people. the bottom line is when you're at home, with your kid and your regimen is this, this, this, this, you know how it's gonna be. That regimen is probably 99.9% of the time not going to be, their regimen because they're different, okay? They see things differently. So I think if you trust your coaches and you're happy with what they're doing, just let the kids go out, enjoy themselves, make new friends, right? Get better at a young age, and then let that happen. As they get older, as they get older, I think that's where you see the difference in Little League, okay? Or town, let's call it town ball, town travel, and then your club program. If you feel like your kid is accelerating and is developing and you think that there's an opportunity for them to, do something in that sport and you wanna take it to the next level, then you go to the club programs. The club programs are usually, are usually run by professional coaches. Now, if you're gonna spend that money and time and effort to get your kid to practice and into that program, you have to trust them, okay? You have to trust the process. It's all about the process at that point.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 30:34

so you re- you really don't wanna make a decision. They're weighty decisions, who your kid's gonna play club ball with or travel ball. Those are big decisions. and you can j- can't just make it willy-nilly. And you as a parent really need to do your homework. You gotta talk to people who have played for this coach. You have to talk to other parents whose son or daughter played in the program. You have to have an idea of what they're all about. W- when I was looking for, a travel ball program, and Dennis was about 13, I, I t- I talked to a, a bunch of guys who had played for Jim Wadica. and it was made very clear to me that Jim was about developing kids. That was his primary focus, that he was not a trophy chaser, and I liked that. Although I liked w- winning too, and I liked getting the trophies when Dennis was playing at a younger age. It was fun to win. but Jim really, was known for developing players, especially known for developing pitchers, which Dennis was at the time.

Joe Clemente 31:28

But Kev, you would say that i- in that program, that the reason why, and I talk to parents about this all the time when they try out for our club. It's the same thing. we're not chasing trophies. But we win a lot because of the, the way that we develop our players. So the kids that show up, I'm sure the same thing with Jimmy, is that they're willing to work, they show up, they practice, right? They're, they're-- they get obsessed with it, and then all of a sudden you put a group of 12 kids together on the field that do that all the time, and then they worry about their job when they're out there, and you win

Kevin T. Mulhearn 32:00

and they're also selective sometimes in who they choose to be on their teams. I remember Watika had some tryouts where they had 25, 25 kids show up, and I think they only selected five or six kids to play on the program. They had that kind of ability to be that kind of selective. And once, th- once they figure out, okay, these kids, are somebody who we want to be in the program, then they just go full bore development and you're off to the races. one of the things too about the Watika um, Joe and, a- and Jim, but what they both did, they did not brook any nonsense. if kids behave poorly, go find another team. and j- Gotta go J- Joe has zero tolerance for prima donna behavior for kids who treat other kids, on their own team poorly, doesn't tolerate it at all, and I love that. the, I don't care, I don't care whether you're the best player on the team. if you're a jackass and you're acting d- disruptively, and making the experience not fun for your other teammates, bye-bye. We don't need you. we'll figure it out some other way.

Joe Clemente 32:58

There's a, there's an old saying in this space, "Shoot the headaches early." You know what I'm saying? get rid, whether it's the kid or the parents, like, because it's not just about, it's not just about the, the one kid. It's about the, the group of kids, the team, and the parents

Kevin T. Mulhearn 33:14

you run a Diamondbacks organization,

Joe Clemente 33:16

Yes, sir

Kevin T. Mulhearn 33:17

and do you aspire to do the same thing with respect to the kids', behavior? If a

Joe Clemente 33:23

Yeah, we don't tolerate it. So when they sign up with us, I have a whole form, like rules and regs, they gotta agree to it, but it's a, it's like a parent and player form, right? 'Cause it's not just about the kid.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 33:35

so is there a parent code of conduct?

Joe Clemente 33:37

there is.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 33:38

Sign

Joe Clemente 33:38

100%.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 33:39

And how often do the parents breach their promise?

Joe Clemente 33:43

More than I'd like to say.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 33:45

to say.

Joe Clemente 33:45

But that's a conversation. That's a conversation

Kevin T. Mulhearn 33:48

wh-when that occurs? you have a conversation with the parent and say, "You're not doing what we asked you to do, and here's why, and we need you to change"?

Joe Clemente 33:55

I treat them like an adult, right? We have a conversation. If they can change it, perfect. If not, then we, I tell them like, "Listen, here's what it is. This is the culture that we've created. We've told you ahead of time. it says it in black and white. If this is something that you don't feel like you're gonna be able to, to do, then you just need to go look for another club

Kevin T. Mulhearn 34:14

Ha- have you had kids walk away from the program 'cause they were unwilling or unable to make the changes you asked for?

Joe Clemente 34:21

I wouldn't say that I've had kids walk away. I've had kids that I've had to let go and parents that I've had to let go. and there's only been a couple of instances, 'cause listen, we do this for the kids, right? Jimmy too. This is all about the kids, okay? So like I would never take out something that the parents are doing on kids, right? Unless it got so, just so crazy that there was no other choice. And I think in 25 years that I've been doing this, I've probably had to do it like twice, that I had to ask... I had to pull a kid, because of the parent. But it was to the point where it was toxic. Toxic. like they just were not mentally right about it. And, what happens is you'll talk to them, right? Or you'll-- You know that there's something going on, and then they spread it, right? 'Cause what they do is they stand there with the parents and "Ah, my kid..." And then all the parents are like, "What is... What are they doing here?" this is not-

Kevin T. Mulhearn 35:16

like a virus.

Joe Clemente 35:17

It's a virus. That's exactly what it is. And once that starts to spread, like it's bad. you gotta end it before it starts.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 35:25

And part of the development of a child athlete is to teach the, the boy to become a man and the girl to become a woman. And part of that is standing u-up on your own two feet and advocating for yourself. And that's, I think, sometimes the hardest thing for kids to do, to actually have adult-- have conversations with adults about their sports career, about their sports year, and certain things happening on the field that, that, that impact them. It's really hard for a kid to go talk to a type A strong personality coach and say, "Hey, coach, can I talk to you about this?" and have that kind of serious and intense conversation about certain things.

Joe Clemente 36:06

It's intimidating,

Kevin T. Mulhearn 36:07

Intense, right? and also sometimes, sometimes, a, a kid could be wrong, and sometimes kids can be deluded, and sometimes parents can be deluded. There's the, a parent could come in there and say, "I want my kid playing shortstop at Don Bosco." And Eric Becker's and Nicky Becker are there in the program at the same time. and the parent might say, my, my kid's the next Derek Jeter. he's the best." And it, s-sometimes there's a break between reality and, and, and dreams and, and perception. sometimes y-your perce-perception of your child could be really warped. for me, when Dennis first started Don Bosco, the whole thing was he's gotta get a Division I scholarship offer. That-that's everybody who goes to Don Bosco comes in thinking, "I'm gonna get a Division I scholarship offer to play baseball." at some point we realized that Dennis was gonna be a better fit in the Division III program. And it took a little bit to actually make that adjustment to say, "Okay, he's gonna play Division III. We're gonna try to get a, get him to go to a really good school and a good academic school where he can play baseball in a really good program and succeed in that way, not in a Division I program." And, once we made that decision though, I have to say couldn't be happier with that. but it wasn't the easiest decision to make to actually say... We had a bunch of showcase tryouts at various Division I schools. Dennis went up to Columbia, and tore it up. there was a showcase of 25, 30, kids, and he, I think he probably had the best performance of any of the players on the field that day. I think probably still the best catch that he's ever made in center field, going back about 120 feet and just diving and laying out for a unbelievable catch. he had a great, I'm talking a great showcase, and that was probably the only great showcase he ever had. And even then, there was not a whisper from the coaches. No follow-up, no, "No great job, Dennis." No nothing. he was a 5'9 outfielder, batting ninth for Don Bosco Prep. They had no interest at all. And, I realized at the time, okay You gotta rethink this whole process and the journey. and for Dennis, now he's-- he goes to Union College, which is a great school. Plays for John Muller, who's a great coach, who built a really strong culture. So he found his home. He found his Division III home, and I'm really happy about it. And I remember talking to Mike Rooney about this, about where's Dennis gonna go play in college. And he said, "Kevin, you know what? he could play Division I maybe, but, he probably wouldn't start at first. it would be a struggle. He's not gonna be a standout by any means. You really should start thinking about really good Division III colleges." And he said that, and it was something that sunk in a little bit, and I thought about it and said, "He's 100% right. We've gotta go start looking at the good DIII schools." and, that was, an ex- an experience that was made and developed by good communications between coach and parent. Mike could have blown smoke up my ears and say, "Oh, no, we're gonna, we're gonna go get, get that, that Harvard Yale scholarship to play D1." And he didn't do that 'cause it wasn't realistic at the time. and I appreciate the candor, and I appreciate the sound advice. But, that's a parent-coach conversation. N- When kids are in high school, there's development, th- there's different d- developing stages for kids. We-- You're really not gonna have a kid talk directly with a coach when he's seven to 10, right? And the, the-- he's not gonna say, "Hey, Coach, why am I playing left field when I should be playing shortstop?" A seven-year-old's not gonna have that conversation with a coach. So parent has to have a conversation. I- if you really legitimately think the coach is not treating your kid fairly when he's seven or eight years old, y- you as a parent do need to have a civil conversation with the coach at that point, right?

Joe Clemente 39:46

Yeah, I would just think it's very calm, right? it's more of a, like an opinion. "Coach, where do you see my..."

Kevin T. Mulhearn 39:52

See, cal- calm is the magic word. See,

Joe Clemente 39:56

Long ride home.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 39:57

but calm is not always easy. No. and we care so much about our kids, and we wanna see them succeed. And you f- especially if you think a coach is treating your kid f- unfairly, it's hard to be calm.

Joe Clemente 40:08

Yeah. that's where people get crazed, But a- but again, as parents and adults, we need to know hey, like they're seven, eight, nine, 10 years old

Kevin T. Mulhearn 40:18

At what age do you think a kid should take responsibility for having communications with a coach about playing time, lineup order, issues like that?

Joe Clemente 40:29

So look, it, I think it, it varies, right? nowadays middle school gets a little crazy, right? I think coaches, for the most part respect athletes that can come to them and feel confident enough to have a, a, a civil conversation, and just be able to inquire, ask questions. know-

Kevin T. Mulhearn 40:51

let me ask you a question on that, though. Are there coaches who are gonna react poorly to being challenged by a kid ab-about playing time?

Joe Clemente 40:58

100%. There-- You're probably gonna get more than not, right? That's how you're gonna know, if there's favoritism, like what's going on, where the relationship is between those other players and that coach. there's always a link somewhere

Kevin T. Mulhearn 41:11

It, it's such an extraordinarily hard thing. we al- we always go back to Don Bosco, that's where our history lies. Sure. But, I remember talking to Mike Mooney right before Dennis' senior year, and I said to I said, "Mike, you have 16 players who are capable of starting on a varsity baseball team. 16 really excellent players. You can only start nine. How the hell do you do it? How do you make those decisions?" And he l- he looked at me and said, "It's really difficult. It's not easy." And at the time, m- my kid was in that 15 mix. I didn't know where he was. I didn't know whether he was eight or nine or 12, 13. Don't know. And, I felt I really couldn't, I couldn't weigh in on that. I didn't weigh in on that. He was gonna make a decision to, as, as to play him or not to play him. That was the coach's decision. I really had no ability to add my input there in a productive way, so I didn't. but I knew, and I empathized with Mike about the difficulty that he was being fa- that he was facing in having so many damn good kids and having so few kids who could play at one time. if, there were 17 kids in the lineup, Bosco would do really well, 'cause we have 17 kids that can all hit. But there's only nine kids who can play at the same time. And, I can only imagine if you're one of those kids who are outside the, the nine, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, not getting regular playing time. That's gotta be really hard, especially if you know you're good and that you're capable of playing and performing at a high level in high school. so s- but like you said, sometimes, I guess you're stuck between a rock and a hard place, 'cause sometimes you go to a coach and he's not gonna react well to the fact that you're making suggestions about playing time. But it's really a, on a case by case basis, so you never know what you're gonna get on that.

Joe Clemente 42:51

No, but I'm gonna tell you flat out, the coaches that you can communicate with, like I've had an... we have an open door policy pretty much with our kids right at Bosco. they know. "Come talk to us," right? N- no, no issues. it's still intimidation, you know what I'm saying? It's still intimidating, I should say, that for a young kid having to come talk to a coach. I get that. but we try to let, especially Ruins lets everybody know, "If there's an issue, come talk to us," okay? We respect that. the, the coaches that you go to that feel threatened, there's a reason why they feel threatened. there, there should never be a situation where, you can't go talk to your coach about playing time or situation, and then, they should be threatened

Kevin T. Mulhearn 43:31

Well, and let's, let's be honest, Joe. Sometimes they're threatened f- for good reason. Yeah. Sometimes they're threatened because they know that, that, that Johnny is the better player than Jimmy,

Joe Clemente 43:40

But they're not playing them

Kevin T. Mulhearn 43:42

dad is an alum and is donating 100 grand a year to the school. 100 grand- Jimmy's gonna be playing. and, and Johnny's stuck holding the bag.

Joe Clemente 43:51

listen, I haven't seen that at Bosco, but I know that it happens, and I know that happens at pubs too, right? The public schools in the area and stuff like that. the... Again, anybody... Parents will do some crazy stuff to make sure that their kid is on the okay? But ultimately, when you get into a program that, you have a ton of good kids, they're always competing, as right? They're always competing for the spot. and whatever the nod is that one kid got over another kid, it could be very minimal, right? it could be the way that they run out to the field. It could be the way that they handle themselves outside of baseball, like out- outside, you know, of the actual game and what they're doing in class. And there's just, there's so many different things that play into it, especially at, at this level. but going to that, going back to that question, if I can't come talk to you and you're my coach, right? When, as a kid, when I come home and I tell my parents, "Hey, I tried talking to him. I tried talking to the coach today. He was like, he was like, like stuttering and just, like, all over the place, and he wouldn't answer me." And, like, you know,

Kevin T. Mulhearn 45:01

So when that hap-- when that, when that happens, w-what is the parent's role? if a kid tries to talk to the coach and gets shut down, is that time for the parent to interject and have a conversation with the coach?

Joe Clemente 45:11

I th- I think it's fair to say an email, right? Like you could send an email and say, "Hey, coach, just following up. I heard, little Johnny, came in to

Kevin T. Mulhearn 45:18

Unfortunately, the emails can most often wind up in the circular wastebasket.

Joe Clemente 45:22

Yeah, but at least there's a, th- that's the first line of communication, right? So that like it's written, like there's, th- there's no, like there's nothing that's gonna be threatening about it. It's just gonna be like, "Hey coach, I'm inquiring, did you guys have a conversation? I was just curious 'cause you didn't really tell me much about it." but you know all about it. we're not stupid. we ask questions that we already know the answers to. 'Cause if you don't, then you're not on

Kevin T. Mulhearn 45:45

player. Ha- have you ever made a change in the lineup because a, a kid or a parent complained to you about- Never. Never. But, but-

Joe Clemente 45:52

but I did give the reason why. I always have kids come to me... Look, I have 20, I had 22 kids this year on the roster. 22, right? I can play nine guys, I can hit 10 'cause of their sub varsity, right? and we rotate guys. Vic and I, I would tell you, and anybody else will tell you the same thing, I think, that we rotate kids in as fast as we can, as much as we can because they're all talented, right? Our job, like for me, is to get them ready for varsity, right? I can't get them ready for varsity sitting on the bench, right? And the kids that were selected, they're all talented. And like before, before I go out, like when we do our huddle, right? To get these guys ready to go, and you can ask, you can ask Dennis. I would say to everybody, I would say, "Hey starters, your job today is to get the, is to get the guy, the non-starters in as fast as we can. Go put up eight runs, get three at-bats," right? "Get your three at-bats, go put up 10 runs," whatever it might be. "Let's get these guys in the game," okay? And they're all like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." and for that, for me and for Vic, right? So everybody knows my assistant coach is Vic Santos, right? From Santos Baseball. So he's phenomenal, right? Played in the big leagues for whatever, nine years. one of my best friends. His program's tremendous. I wanna give him props because without him, I don't, we're not as successful as we, we would be. And, like one of the things that y- we talk about is about our kids playing for each other, right? It's not about playing for me, it's about them wanting to help each other, and that's the culture, right? So Vic and I talk about it all the time. We're like, "Hey guys, you want... starters, get the non-starters in as fast as you can." And they're like, and they get excited about it because they wanna help their kids get in. I actually have kids come up to me like in like the fifth, sixth inning, they've already had three at-bats and, they'll be like, "Hey, coach, like it's like, if you..." 'Cause I'm, I'll be telling guys to get loose and they'll be like, "Hey, if you wanna give Johnny my at-bat, I'm totally cool with that." now I don't need, I don't need their okay. But for just like their mentality, that's a great teammate, right? I'm okay with so and so taking my at-bat because, he's one, he's my teammate, he's my brother.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 48:10

brother. So, so how can a non-starter earn playing time on a team that you coach? y- obviously talent is part of the equation. You would think attitude, effort, preparation, those are all issues that, that are gonna help. But what is the driver for you as far as making the determination, "Okay, I'm gonna make a switch," especially when you ha- with... understand it's a ze- it's a zero-sum game. Somebody i- is gonna play, then that means somebody else is gonna sit. do you make those decisions? So

Joe Clemente 48:39

our determination is definitely all the things that you said plus, like we watch our guys at practice. Like I mean that's our... That's one of our secrets, right? Don't tell anybody, right? But one of our secrets is like how you practice is big for us, right? Especially for Runes and those guys. if you're gonna go out there and you're gonna dog it, then you're just gonna stay right where you are, right? But if you're gonna go out there and every day we see you getting better and you're busting your hump to get better, then you're gonna get an opportunity. and again, unfortunately at, at our level, the skill, like it's close, right? It's very close to everybody. But there's always those intangibles of the kids that do start that that put them over the top. Right now, what are you gonna do? You have a kid that goes in there and he's hitting 400, and now you're gonna take the kid who was behind him and just all of a sudden be like, "Ah, you know what? He didn't earn it." you can't do that either, right? if the kid's doing his job. But in our mindset, with our mindset is we wanna get kids in the game as fast as we can, Now that's at a sub-varsity level, right? JV, it's a little easier to do. At the varsity level, it's much harder to do, right? Because you're in... Coach Runes, any of the varsity coaches in the area, anywhere in the country, right? you're picking the top nine guys that you think that day is gonna go out and is gonna give your team the best opportunity to win. Because it's not about just you, just the team. It's also about the school you're representing, right? that's the most important thing, right? The name that you wear across the chest, the name on the front is way more important than the name on the back. again, you're making a decision as a coach, not only for players, teams, right? all these things that come into play. I know that parents, and I say this to parents wholeheartedly, I know that you think that it's really easy to walk out to the field and like this is the lineup. There are so many sleepless nights, okay, countless hours that we talk as a whole, as a group. And I'm not just talking about Bosco. This is hap- this happens to all of the, the, the programs that have been successful, even if they're struggling, right? There's a process, right? There's, It's not just cut and dry, like I'm just, "Oh, you know what? I just saw so and I know him since he's been 11. He's gonna run out there." it doesn't work like that, I think that's where one of the things that parents, they need to understand that there... Again, I keep going back to, trust the process. It's the truth. There is a process for all of this, from the time that they start and to the time that hopefully that they get to play in college.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 51:18

interesting thing is it seems to me that as a child grows and becomes a man or a woman, he has to grow as far as his communication skills, and that's a big part of it. and when that happens, the parent's role recedes. You have less impact certainly with coaches, In, in, in high school, y-y-you really don't... I can imagine it's really not a great look for a parent to go to a coach and say, "Hey, why isn't my son playing?" I th- I think parents-- I think coaches would mostly resent that if that did happen.

Joe Clemente 51:54

So I'm gonna make you laugh 'cause you, you were there, right? You were there. So you were always one of the guys in the stands, right? A- and again, but you are far enough away from your kid, you're just watching the game, okay? You probably sat the furthest from all of us, okay? How many parents, how many people tried to, nestle in to get closer to their kid, right? trying to, like, hover. that's not doing you any good, right? Because as coaches, as coaches... I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell you something else that's really funny. At tryouts, this... As, as stupid as this sounds, we'll be at tryouts, right? Because we're in the Northeast, it's cold, right? But, we probably get out, fortunately for the last couple of years we've been out, maybe the last three days of practice, of tryouts, okay? And there's always one parent sitting in the stands filming the tryout. And all of us- Is that right one... Listen, I'm telling you, it, you could bet on this

Kevin T. Mulhearn 52:59

I ne- I never went anywhere near a triathlon. Never went near a

Joe Clemente 53:00

never went near a tryout, okay? Games are one thing, right? that's what I'm saying. they hover. But seriously, man, they... Cap, they would... There's always one. They would show up, dead center of our stands. You know where our stands are down at the... And, the camera's out, and all of us, would stand there and be like, who are they related to? Who are they related to?" And it, and, you... It would always be an athlete. And again, I'm not knocking anybody, but it would always be, like, a borderline athlete. whether they're gonna make the team or they're not gonna make the team, okay? And it could be a bubble guy, but you understand why they're doing that. They're doing that, they're filming it because if they get cut, they wanna be able to go in and be like, listen, I saw the video, and, I have a video, and my kid, he hit a hard ground ball to the third baseman." You're like, "What are you talking about?"

Kevin T. Mulhearn 53:57

Basically you're saying that if you see the parent of a bubble boy filming, that bubble's about to

Joe Clemente 54:01

Just, yeah, do me a favor and, yeah, just, it just, it's not a good s- it's not a good scenario, let's put it that way. but listen, but, that's what happens. That's what happens

Kevin T. Mulhearn 54:13

it's, again, and I just wanna talk, touch really quickly on this. As far as c- college, when a kid st- starts playing in college, there really is n- never any, any time for a parent to talk to a, a coach about issues involving the game. a, a parent can never or should never talk about playing time, about position, about batting order. Those are conversations that absolutely have to be between coach and player, correct?

Joe Clemente 54:42

Never. it is You're at that point, you're a young man, young woman, you gotta have enough confidence to be able... Like, you're there playing for that coach, right? before... you need to tell your, your story for sure, but I have to tell you something. We were at a tournament, couple weeks ago, real quick, and this is a true story, and I had a bunch of kids, They're getting recruited. There was, like, 40 coaches there, n- no joke, okay? Watching all the kids warm up, all that stuff, okay? All of a sudden, one of the, one of the parents, brought some stuff, walked over to the dugout, okay, called their son, The son walked over, forgot all of their stuff. N- no, no joke, like a bag, the whole nine. Walked away and left, okay? I'm standing there. All of a sudden, two seconds later, one of the coaches from a big school called me over, and they're like, "Hey, Coach." They're like, who was that?" And I was like, "Ah, this is bad. This is bad." I was like, "Should I make up a name?" I

Kevin T. Mulhearn 55:46

the bubble's about to burst

Joe Clemente 55:47

I was like... He was like, "Hey, it was number such and such." And I'm like, "Yeah." I'm like, "Listen, he's a good kid." I was like, "Can't control the parents." He's like, "Yeah." He's like, "That's not gonna work." He's like, "I'm sorry, man." I was like, "I totally understand."

Kevin T. Mulhearn 56:02

So you're saying the parent basically blackballed the

Joe Clemente 56:05

I understand the parent has the little kid- Done. I saw, I saw, I saw the coach, draw a line right through the kid's name, and the worst part about that is that there are 40 guys sitting together, 40 coaches sitting together. You know as well as I do that they are probably asking him why they, 'cause they're all friends, why he went and talked to me, or they knew why they, he was going to talk to me, and then that took care... Can you believe that? Just because, kid forgot his bag or whatever, and he shouldn't. again, you gotta be responsible. but listen, in, in the coach's mind, like you, they're bringing you on. You gotta, you got... They gotta trust you. They gotta trust you. So I know going into that, talk to me a little bit about your, what went down this, what you figured out this year with Dennis. I think that was a really inspiring situation.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 56:49

Well, it was interesting 'cause, a- and again, just like high school with Don Bosco, Union College has a bunch of great players. and I'm talking about kids who don't play, who were probably the best kid or the second-best kid on their high school team. so the coach is faced with a conundrum every single time he writes out the lineup. There, there are 25 kids, I'm counting position players now, not pitchers. there's probably about 20 kids, 22 kids who are all really good baseball players. Super talented players. and you could see, this maybe five or six kids who clearly are a, a bit of a cut above talent-wise, but the bottom three is the six, seven, eight, nine, are close. you could pick a, a, a handful from this group, a handful from that group. It's really hard, diff- difficult to make the adjustment, as to who, who gets playing time and who doesn't. And, and for Dennis this year, he started off, he didn't play at all the first couple of games. He had a really big hit. he came in as a pinch hitter in a tie game in the ninth inning he got a, a game-winning hit against SUNY Purchase, like the fourth or fifth game of the season. So happy day. his teammates mob him, and he's all happy. He made his bones with the program. Yep. But then he sat for 17 games, and, and I was starting to pull my hair out. We went down to Florida. He was one of the s- several kids who didn't play at all in the Florida trips. I was there for four or five days, in the Florida trip. I was, I was so steamed. And I wasn't mad at the coaches, I'm just frustrated at going down and not seeing my kid play. It was hard to watch him war- warm up, left fielder every, every game. That's what he was doing. he'd say, "How, what'd you think of the game, Dad?" I said, Dennis, you hit that kid in the chest three times in a row. That was awesome." that was the peak of his

Joe Clemente 58:26

that's great. That's

Kevin T. Mulhearn 58:27

but w- we used to joke about it. but, he was getting down at the end of the run where he wasn't playing. he called me up one time, said, "Dad, I, I have to tell you, I, I feel like I'm disappointing you." And I said to him, "Dennis, don't ever think that." I said, "I couldn't be more proud of you, and I don't care whether you play every game. I don't care whether you sit the rest of the season. I don't care if you ever get another at bat." I said, I'm extremely proud of you and how hard you worked and what you're doing, so don't worry about it. you're not disappointing me. Don't even think that for a second." so but it upset me that he was upset about not playing. Of course. And I had a conversation with my friend Joe Clemente. I gave him a call. I said, "Joe, here's the situation. what should I do? Should I call the coach and talk to him about it?" And you said, "Absolutely not." Said, you cannot have that conversation with the coach. You just can't." And I said, "Okay, what should Dennis do?" "He needs to have a conversation with the coach, say, 'Coach, I just wanna let you know I'm here. I'm ready to make a contribution. W- just let me know what I can do So Dennis goes in his own way, I guess, had, had that kind of conversation, and Coach Butler, listened to him respectfully. he was nice about it. he, what he didn't take umbrage at being questioned by a kid about playing time. And I think my s- my son is, not u- not uber aggressive on that and wasn't being nasty about it or critical. He's just telling the coach, "Hey, don't forget about me. I wanna play. and I can play and I wanna help the team." Coach puts him in a game or two after. He gets a couple of hits, and he stays in the lineup the rest of the season. Starts 17 of the last 18 games, and winds up hitting over .300 for the season. good things come to those who wait, but the lesson to that story is that Dad had nothing to do with that conversation, and I'm really happy that I called you. Was, I was really tempted at that point to call Coach and say, "Hey, what's going on?" And I was gonna try to do it in a nice way. And I wasn't being overly critical, too. I could tell you, the kids who don't play on the team are really good. I can tell they're really good. it's hard to crack the starting lineup at college baseball. It just is. and I don't hold anything against any of the coaches at any period of time. They have a lot of tough decisions to make, and they're hard decisions. I wanna see my kid play, I wanna see him perform. And I also understand that sometimes that, it's not in the cards. And sometimes there are kids be- better than your kid. That's how it is, too. and you have to deal with that sometimes as well. who knows what next year brings? and Dennis could start every game. He could start no games. It's, anything is possible. I have to tell you, I've come to peace with that, and I realize that, the, the most important thing is the school he's going to and the people he's meeting. And the one thing I, that I really give props to Coach Muller on, he's developed such an amazing culture that those kids really root for each other. They have each other's backs. it's a level of support that i- it's extraordinary to watch and inspiring. And it's something that whether Dennis is an All-League player next year, which is quite possible, he's got it in him, or he rides the bench for three more years, at the end of the year, he's gonna have a great four-year experience at the Union College baseball program. And part of it i- is that Dad figured out to, to take a, a, a backseat and let the child, let the young man do his own talking for himself, do his own advocating for himself. And the one thing I, y- we talk about when should you talk to, to, to a coach. I think maybe you talk to a coach about health, their health issues maybe. It's a conversation can be had about grades issues or grades are slipping. There are some times I think that are appropriate to have a conversation with a coach, but certainly never ever about playing time, about playing the time decisions, about lineup decisions, about what position the kid plays or doesn't play. Those are conversations that are, that have to be left to the child and, and to the player and the coach. That's just how it is. And I'm really happy I listened to your advice 'cause I was real- I was so tempted. It was... I was getting frustrated. I was getting frustrated,

Joe Clemente 1:02:26

But you would... Yeah, it's it's... Think about all the talent there, right? Yeah. two things. One, y- you would have to agree that Dennis going in and having that conversation with Coach, that helped him, right? just be more confident, right? To be able... 'Cause he, listen, we know Dennis. I love him, he is the nicest kid in the world. that's hard, right? And that, not just for him, but any player that has to go in there and talk to a head coach. You know what I'm saying? And, 'cause you don't know what the response is gonna be.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 1:02:58

about asserting yourself as a man and as, and assuming control and agency of your manhood. and that's not an easy thing sometimes, especially when we teach our kids to be so deferential and r- and respectful towards their elders. To go in there and have a c- conversation that's at all challenging is hard. I remember for me, I wrote about this in Ghost of October, one of the seminal moments of my young adulthood was when I w- when I challenged the, my Muhlenberg College baseball coach. it was middle April, freezing. I was riding pine, and, he, he's, he said, w- we don't have a first base coach. We need someone to coach first base." Bucko was my nickname, was Bucko. He said, "Bucko, g- go coach first base." I got up and I s- and I yelled out, "Coach, I'm a player, not a coach," and I sat down. and I had, you know, Jesse Marrone my teammate He-- I remember he looks at me like, "What the hell? What the hell did you just do?" Because Coach Beidleman was a tough guy. He wasn't gonna take kindly to that. I was never called Bucko or Kevin the rest of my career at Muhlenberg College. I was Mulhern, and Mulhern with disdain. but it was something that, that I needed to do to assert myself as a man.

Joe Clemente 1:04:11

You gotta always re-- you know, y-y-- if you don't believe in yourself, nobody else is gonna. and the last thing I'm gonna touch base with, you were talking about how hard it is, like talent-wise, okay? I want you to... And again, I know we always revert back to Bosco, but this could probably touch all the schools in the area, where we're at, okay? Think about this. Coach Rooney has, Roons has, 25 kids, 26 kids every year, okay? In order to go out and compete, there's probably 15 or those 16 kids that we were talking about that have to con- continue to cycle through in order to be competitive and win, okay? But nobody talks about the last 10 or 12 that still get offers and still play in college, even though they didn't step on the field, okay? So when parents, the parents that are watching this, talking about maybe the Big North, parochial, whatever, high-level public school, the bottom line is, your kids are playing, and yes, they all wanna be out on the field, they all wanna compete, but ultimately for-- at that point, I would think that most of them, the majority of them, maybe not all, but the majority wanna play in college, right? So if you're in a program that even though that you don't start, you get limited playing time, but you're still getting signed in the summer, 'cause that's where it's all gonna happen anyway, and you're still getting an opportunity to play in college, that kinda speaks for itself, right? People respect where you're at and what they're doing. Uh, that's worth its weight in gold.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 1:05:44

where it's all gonna happen anyway, and you're still getting an opportunity to play in college, that kind of speaks for itself. People respect where you're at and what they're doing. Uh, that's worth its weight in gold. college coaches know that Don Bosco program is the top program in the state. and I think the college coaches know that the Don Bosco kids are taught the right things. They're gonna hustle all the time. They're gonna make the little play. They're gonna get the bunt down when they need to get the bunt down. They're gonna do the little things that separate winning from losing.

Joe Clemente 1:06:01

Yeah, they don't have to reteach them when they get there.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 1:06:03

the college coaches know that, I think. 100%. es- especially in the pitching. to be a pitcher for Don Bosco, it's really difficult. there are some excellent pitchers who go through that program who get seven, eight, 10 innings a year. it's hard. It's hard to crack that 20, 30, 40 inning barrier. It's really difficult. and there are some really good pitchers who I think are gonna have great college careers who had minimal runs as pitchers at Don Bosco.

Joe Clemente 1:06:30

Yeah, but the college coaches know when those kids came into the program or they're coming into the program, like they know what they're getting. They know that these guys are gonna be prepared

Kevin T. Mulhearn 1:06:39

so just to wrap up, Joe, as far as the, the whole relationship between parents and coach, is it fair to say that the ultimate goal is independence? How to teach your kid, how to be an independent man or woman through sports? That fair?

Joe Clemente 1:06:55

Yeah, that's more than fair. that's what we're doing here, right? We talk about better athletes, better people, right? that's our MO here. ultimately it's getting them from childhood to adulthood and being able to be good people and, have confidence in themselves, right? That's what we're doing here

Kevin T. Mulhearn 1:07:11

And the, the road from childhood to adulthood is often fraught with peril. It's not the easiest, It's not a straight line walk, for sure.

Joe Clemente 1:07:19

Hills and valleys. Hills and valleys

Kevin T. Mulhearn 1:07:22

but I sometimes think sometimes the deeper the val- the valley, the higher the hill- Yeah in s- in some respects, right? That's

Joe Clemente 1:07:28

That's good, I like that. And we're gonna, we're gonna keep that

Kevin T. Mulhearn 1:07:31

I guess that's why they pay me the big

Joe Clemente 1:07:32

Absolutely. Absolutely

Kevin T. Mulhearn 1:07:35

can you, tell the, our audience one thing that you'd like them to remember from today's conversation? One closing note.

Joe Clemente 1:07:42

Yeah, absolutely. So if I have to touch on one thing, a-and again, it happens to all parents, right? One, you gotta make sure that you trust the coaches that you're with, like that you're giving your kids, like that are gonna be playing for, like they're... Wherever you're gonna put them in the programs. But most importantly, teach the kids, to have trust in their coaches as long as they're where they need to be. And if you get to a situation where, you feel like there's a conversation warranted, allow the kids, at a certain age, allow them to be able to go speak to the coaches first. And if that's not a situation that, is good, then you can go in and you can intervene, right? Especially at a young age. I would say, like probably eighth grade and down. Anything over that, once you get to high school, allow your kids to be assertive. Go and talk to the coaches if they think there's a situation and from there, it... That'll lead the way. but coaches, I'm telling you right now, especially at the high school level, coaches will respect players that come and talk to them first before the parents do. That is 100%.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 1:08:43

This is a, another fun conversation, Joe. I always enjoy talking with you. I love doing this with you, man.

Joe Clemente 1:08:47

I love doing this with you, man

Kevin T. Mulhearn 1:08:48

To our audience, I would say keep moving forward. See you next week at another episode of FWrd: Better Athletes, Better People. Have a great day Thanks for joining us for another episode of FWrd. If today's conversation helped you, we'd love for you to subscribe and share it with someone who cares about developing better athletes and better people. FWrd is a Hard Knock Press publication where we're building books, conversations, and ideas that challenge conventional thinking and help people grow. Until next time, keep moving forward