FWD | The Tough Guy Parent Trap

When does pushing a young athlete build resilience—and when does it begin to break them down?

In Episode 2 of Forward, Joe Clemente and Kevin Mulhearn examine the “old-school tough guy” approach to parenting and coaching. Drawing from their own childhoods, their experiences as sports parents, and Joe’s 25 years as a coach, they explore what that style gets right, where it goes too far, and why toughness without balance can do lasting damage.

Joe shares how relentless training, public criticism, and the fear of disappointing his stepfather affected him as a young athlete. Kevin reflects on the lessons he learned from his own father—and the moments when he later repeated the same behavior with his son.

This conversation is not about eliminating discipline, expectations, or hard work. It is about learning to separate effort from outcome, knowing when to push and when to pull back, and remembering that a parent must provide something a coach cannot: a safe place to come home.

In this episode:

• The benefits and dangers of the old-school parenting approach
 • Joe’s experience playing through injured and bleeding hands
 • Why children should not be criticized for outcomes they cannot control
 • The difference between demanding effort and demanding perfection
 • How parents’ behavior affects young athletes on and off the field
 • Why talented children sometimes lose their love for the game
 • The importance of balancing discipline with encouragement
 • Why a child’s desire to improve must be greater than the parent’s
 • What it means when you have to drag your child to practice
 • How parents can push their children without pushing them out of sports

Forward is a podcast from Hard Knock Press featuring honest conversations about youth sports, parenting, coaching, growth, and the lessons that extend far beyond the field.

Better Athletes. Better People.

Order The Long Ride Home at hardknockpress.com.

Questions, comments, or stories to share? Email hello@hardknockpress.com.

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Transcript

Kevin T. Mulhearn 0:10

Welcome to Forward, a podcast from Hard Knock Press where we explore the ideas, stories, and conversations that help build better athletes and better people. I'm Kevin Mulhern alongside Joe Clemente. Let's get started Hello, folks. Welcome to "Forward: Better Athletes, Better People" podcast, episode number two. We talked last week briefly, Joe, about your book, "The Long Ride Home: How to Help Your Kids Shine in Youth Sports Without Driving Them Crazy." And toward the end of the book, you spend a lot of time talking about old school, tough guy parents, which you said were the majority of parents, who you deal with as a coach, we wanted to emphasize that this book is not a kumbaya book that everybody gets along, and we're very happy if we lose 15 to nothing, and we just wanna have fun that's not what we're about. But I wanted to, emphasize in today's episode, specific issues that pertain to the tough guy, old school type of parent, and how this book can help those kind of parents improve their parenting. And one thing that we're mindful of is that there will be some tough guy, old school resistance to the message of this book. I think a lot of the things about old school tough guys is they think that, "Okay, my way is the better way. I know what I'm doing. I know what I'm talking about. This is namby-pamby, but I'm gonna do it the way I'm gonna do it," and that's that. And we are doing this podcast, for you to listen to this and maybe learn that there is a better way. 'Cause I'm telling you, as a guy who used to be a tough guy, old school parent, and I've kind of l- learned how to adjust and modify that a little bit, I can tell you that there is a better way. I know it for sure. when you read Joe's book, you're gonna realize that how to handle your kids, is a delicate balance, and it's not all push, push, push all the time. So Joe, one of the things I wanted to do is, talk about our, our own personal backgrounds. you were a much more successful athlete than I was, but, we both were athletes as kids. you were all-state football and baseball player, at Saint Elizabeth High School. I played football, basketball, and baseball at Poly Prep. But we both had dads who were old school tough guys, and I want you to first of all say hello to the audience and talk a little bit about your experience with your own father as a kid growing up as a competitive athlete.

Joe Clemente 2:55

hello everybody, right? Part two, this is awesome. very excited. talking about the old school way of coaching, right? I've been around sports for a long time, right? I've been coaching for over 25 years and dealing with athletes of all different types of skill level, abilities. those are the things I think as a coach, first and foremost, that you need to know is what your kids are capable of, right? You have to kind of classify them. Going back when I was younger, I was in a situation where my parents were divorced, so I had my biological dad, and then I had my stepfather. My biological dad was a football player, ended up playing for Army. He was a quarterback. Loved baseball, right? 'Cause I fell in love with it. And on the weekends that I would go with him, we'd go to Staten Island, he'd bring me to the schoolyard, and we'd play stickball, right? And he would try to beat me with a tennis ball. And I had this huge stickball bat, and I just started hammering balls, you know, that he would throw to me. And he'd be like, "Hey, you're pretty good," And, That, that was my relationship with him. And he was always very positive, and it was always about, showing up whenever he could to make sure I was there on time and, it was never really, like, the skill thing. when my mom got remarried to my stepfather, he was all about baseball. he was Puerto Ricano. It was, in his blood. He played, at a high level when he was younger. He even played, like, fast pitch softball, You know how, like, that was crazy.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 4:29

old were you when your mom remarried?

Joe Clemente 4:30

So my mom remarried when I was nine. And so again, it went back and forth, right? I was traveling back and forth with my dad, and then I was at home. I lived with my mom and my stepfather and my sisters. So, he would always find time, but the training that I got with him, And the way he trained me was way different than when I went and hung out with my dad, right? Like my biological father. One of the things that I learned at a very early age is parents that are very passionate, let's call it very passionate about, their sports, their training methods, and the way that they act are way different than, you know, other parents that wanna keep it fun. A-again, want you to be serious, but also need to know that there's a component in there to be able, "Hey, like go, go have fun, do the best you can, and if you need help, we'll figure it out from there." at a very young age, right, at nine, 10 years old, it was, it was almost militant, you know? And if, he came home and was like, "Hey, how many pushups did you do today? How many sit-ups? you know, how many swings did you take off the tee? Did you throw? Did you run?" And I was like, "Uh, none." You know, I, I went up the street and hung out with my buddies, you know, the Carroll boys, and we were hanging out, and we, yeah, we were playing wiffle ball and stickball, and that was the, you know, that was where I practiced. fortunately for me, hanging out with my buddies that were older two houses up, playing with their older brother, you know, made me much better, And I was, I was very lucky. But, I was very fortunate to be able to have my stepfather care as much as he did, right, about sports and about me and so forth and so on. There was always an expectation that you had to win everything, and if you didn't, you sucked, right? You were terrible. And in my mind as a young kid, like, it almost got to the point where, I don't wanna say I was afraid to go on the field and fail, but there was a point where I went on the field and I was afraid to fail, if that makes sense, right? So, 'cause I didn't wanna deal with what was coming afterwards. And again, eventually when I got older, I literally had a conversation with him. I was like, "Listen, dude, if you wanna be here and help me, awesome, 'cause, I'm at a point where, I've been working really hard. I'm much better than I was when I was a young kid. I'm getting physically stronger. I was very, you know, thank God I was very gifted, that I could hit the ball a long way. and then, you know, we had that conversation, and even at that point, like, he would tell me, he'd be like, "Listen, I'm gonna be down the right field line by first base. Make sure you take a look at me, you know, before you're at bat." I'm like, "Well," I'm like, what? I gotta worry about the guy on the bump. I'm not worried about you," you know?

Kevin T. Mulhearn 7:29

how old are you here?

Joe Clemente 7:30

it started when I was, like, 10 years old, 11 years old. and then, into high school. freshman year. I had a conversation with him and said, "Look, I wanna take this serious, but I can't take this anymore. Like, you either gotta back off or, just come be a spectator. If you wanna help me, then help me. but the way that you're treating me and the way that you're acting when I'm on the field around my friends, around families and coaches, like, it's bad."

Kevin T. Mulhearn 8:00

Coaches Like- it's bad So what specifically would he do or say to you when you looked over to him, behind the first base

Joe Clemente 8:05

he was the normal, like crazy parent, you know? He would stand there and be, like, "Hey, make sure you, you know, make sure you stride straight. make sure you're ready to hit. Kid's throwing hard," or, "Hey, "He's got a good slider. you know, with two strikes." And I'm like, "All right, man. I see it, too." You know? Like, and it's just so repetitive, right? Like, I felt like I know this sounds crazy, but, like, I wanted to take a rubber mallet and just keep hitting myself on the head like he's gonna keep saying the same thing. Like, I get it. Like, that's where I think as parents, like, that's where the growth of the athlete really comes because- You could train a kid all you want, right? Like you could get him lessons, You can be out there hitting. You could be out there throwing, feeling. But until they're capable of feeling it and teaching themselves, like, "Hey, that's the correction," like, they're trying to get to that point. Once they get to that point, n- now you have something. Now, now something like, uh, you know, Dr. Wright says, like at 13 years old, they don't, they don't, they don't feel that. And then what happens is they get stuck with coaches, or they have their parents that have all spent all that time and money and their efforts, and now they go out and they struggle when they get to the big field. And instead of the parents being like, "Hey, all right, listen, we're gonna figure this out," like, it's, it... History repeats itself, right? I think you'll agree with me, right? So when they come on at eight, nine years old, they're terrible, right? Like they walk everybody, they can't hit, or if they do, or they'll make a play, there's an error, They can't catch a fly ball. But they're having fun, right? And they love it. And all of a sudden they go, you know, from nine years old, and then they get to like the 50, 70 field at 11, right? And at 12, they're gods, right? Because they're starting to get a little bit more physical, bats. yeah, loaded, the, the, the spring loaded sticks. And then like they check swing and the ball goes 220. It's a home run, right? And it's like, "Yay!" Like, "Oh my God," like, "I hit 20, I hit 20 jacks this year, you know, with a loaded stick. Awesome, awesome. But then what happens is, and I tell everybody this and I know this is gonna sound really rough when I say this, right Kev? I tell everybody when they get to 13U, like, unfortunately, like- Unless they're physically strong, all 13U players suck, right? Because they're now the eight and nine-year-old that they were when they were first learning, because now they're on the big field, and the big field is the great equalizer. You agree?

Kevin T. Mulhearn 10:39

The big field separates the men from the boys, and a uh, kids can't and don't make that adjustment. It's a big adjustment for parents too, because you go from watching Little League with the drop 10s where, where your kid's hitting 25 home runs a year- Yep where every other game he's taking a, taking a stroll around the Uh, you're getting a certifiable Cooperstown home run, and y- you think, "Hey, this is great. Like, my kid's killing it." Then they begin the 13-year baseball campaign, and it's a different story. And it's humbling for parents sitting there watching the kids struggling. If, if they're lucky, they get, you know, one hit in four at bats, maybe a ball barely over the shortstop's head. You're just not hitting balls over outfielders' heads when you're 13 years old, whereas the outfielders are playing deep 'cause it's a big field. it also, uh, significantly enhances the value of a good outfielder. you know, in Little League from eight to 11, you're putting the worst fielders in the outfield. You're hoping that nobody's gonna hit the ball out there. But by the time you're 13, when there's, uh, that much space to c- to cover, you best have some outfielders who can run and track a ball because that's the difference between a lot of wins and losses, the bases loaded, a ball in the gap so he's gotta run 65, 75 feet to make a catch. Not easy, and it's a big difference between the Little League type game and big boy game.

Joe Clemente 11:59

Yeah, and the right fielder is probably your best athlete because every ball that gets hammered to right to he's throwing a guy out at first base.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 12:06

right field is gonna fly out of here. I wouldn't go that far. He's still

Joe Clemente 12:07

no, no. But, but you gotta have a guy who's got a hose out there that's gonna throw guys out at first base, right? So you know, you say that and it's like such it's, so spot on because when you, when they go to Cooperstown...

Kevin T. Mulhearn 12:18

you get to that- Yeah ...is there anything worse in sports than hitting a line drive clean base hit to right field and being thrown out at first base? Nothing at all. It's gotta be the, the lowest of the low,

Joe Clemente 12:28

It's terrible, and every parent out there knows, Like, that's when they like that's when they get ignited, right? Like, "My kid had a hit." Like you took a... Like that was a hit. let me ask you a question. Uh, in the GC, Coach, did, did you put hit and then- like, did he, you know, because it really was a hit. And you're like, "No, he was thrown out." it's not a hit. But for him, it was very gratifying that it was a real hit, but the, the bases are so, so far, you know. Not to another substance but even worse than that

Kevin T. Mulhearn 12:55

I, I'll tell you another subset that the-- even worse than that, is when a guy hits a base hit to center field and, and the f- the guy running on first base, uh, is carrying a piano on his back and can't run, and he gets thrown out at second on a line drive base hit to center field. The IC parents pull their hair out

Joe Clemente 13:10

Oh, they get so mad. That became a fielder's choice, choice, right?

Kevin T. Mulhearn 13:14

that's that's a fielder's choice out.

Joe Clemente 13:16

You know what's crazy? You, were talking about Cooperstown, and in Cooperstown, or, or at a younger age, like at that 12-year-old level, I've seen it so many times, and I and I know that you have because you've been around baseball for so long. But you'll see the kids, in Cooperstown, the kids that are hitting line drives, that maybe didn't hit a home run in Cooperstown, but they're hitting doubles, single, you know what I'm saying? Like, they're hitting the ball hard. All the sudden, they go to 13U, they're not expected to hit home runs, right? But now all of a sudden they're getting a lot of hits, and the guy who was hitting all the home runs at 12U, and that, again, talking about our book, right? That's where parents, start to lose it 'cause they're like, "My kid was hitting third, hit 20 jacks," right? And now he's got one hit, and little Bobby over there, who didn't get a, like, who couldn't get a, you know, a home run the whole entire season, he's got six hits, right? Because he hits line drives or he hits it hard on the ground. like, the the mental capacity, like, that's the parents, start to, like, lose their mind at 13U. And it's hard, you know? But they just need to understand it's a process. Trust the process, They'll get there

Kevin T. Mulhearn 14:30

So, uh, so I wanna just get back to to your own upbringing as a child athlete when when you were a kid. Is there one incident, uh, with your stepdad, um, that really stands out in your mind as, as when he really employed the tough guy old school approach and it, and it, didn't have reaction, on you that he had hoped?

Joe Clemente 14:49

Yeah. So I mean, listen, I'm never gonna forget this one, right? I was at Elizabeth High School getting ready to play a a county game. The game. before, I think I went like 0 for 4 or something like that. Uh, but I, man, I struck the ball. Like I just hit barrels. Like, I think I hit like two line drives to the shortstop, like a line drive to center and and right or left, okay? It was it was one of those games. But I was 0 for 4, right? So I'll never forget, like, he kept me in the cages, I'm telling you, it had to be like four hours. my my hands were actually bleeding. Okay? like, I'm like, "Dude, I g- I can't hit anymore." He's like, "You're gonna keep hitting until I tell you not You know, "that you, you're gonna stop." And I said I looked at him, I said, "Listen, you and I have been good for a long time," I said, "but I'm telling you right now, I, I, can't hit anymore." I said, "If you, if you, if I keep doing this, then all that's gonna happen is when we go and play the counties, right, I'm not gonna be able to swing a bat." okay? So- F- unfortunately, right, what ends up happening, my hands are like totally like cut... and and listen, I, I'm not complaining. Like guys do this all the time. They hit a lot, It that these, that the, callouses had, had broken, right? The blisters had broken. It was deep, right? 'Cause I just kept hitting. I just kept hitting. I was trying to explain to him. So, you know, he was just obsessed with, like, "Hey, there's gonna be coaches there, college coaches there, and we gotta win the and y- you gotta be great." like, it, it was kept like, just kept dropping the hammer on me. So day the counties are there, I go into my trainer and I'm like, "Hey, man." I was like, "I, I can't feel my hands." he took care-- or he patched me up, right? Second skin, the whole nine yards. And, um, my first at bat, my first at bat, the kid was throwing pretty well. Right? He was like 87, 88. Uh, good movement. and I'm telling you right now, Cap, I I took a swing, I was like a day and a half late. I couldn't feel-- like I just couldn't feel my hands, And he is berating me, like berating me down the first baseline, right? Like to the point of where I think he said more things in Spanish-

Kevin T. Mulhearn 17:03

hopefully hopefully you

Joe Clemente 17:05

didn't

Kevin T. Mulhearn 17:05

know Spanish. I didn't know, ...I,

Joe Clemente 17:06

I didn't kn- like, I, didn't know it, but, but, like, he, I think he said more things in Spanish so that nobody knew what he was saying. But there was a lot of Spanish guys there, so they all knew what he was saying, And like I struck out, and it was terrible, right? And I'll never forget, he, he walked, from first base, walked around, uh, to where our dugout was, and he leant in and he was like, "You suck." He's like, "You're terrible. You suck." He's like, "If you don't get this done..." And I literally looked, and I was like, "Get out of the dugout." I was like, "Don't talk to me. Get out of the dugout." And I said a lot of other things because I was extremely upset that he didn't listen to me that my hands were... But the crazy part is that I was so mad, like I was so, so mad that my, like, my next at-bats, like I hit the ball hard. I think I got a couple hits. I came back. Um, we ended up winning the game, I had one of my buddies drive me home, to, to to my apartment, 'cause remember, I was at Elizabeth. Um, and, you know, he, he came in, he was like, "See? See? You toughed it out. You toughed it out." And I was like, "Listen, man, you need to-- you just need to leave." So I literally told my stepfather, like, he needed to go, he needed to go back, you know, go go with my mom. And I literally stayed there for the next few days by myself because I, I just, I couldn't talk to him. Like, I was so upset. Um, my, my high school coach who's, who's pretty chill, came to me and said, "Hey, listen." uh, he's like, "I know you, you were going through some stuff the other day. Um, if you ever need to talk," He's like, "But I just wanna let you know," he's like, "That's never gonna happen again." And I was like, "What do you mean, Coach?" He's like, "I'm just telling you I got your back and that's never gonna happen again." So not that anything was ever said to me and this is where I had a lot of, a lot of respect for my, for my high school coach. Not, like, it was never said, but I remember going out to practice, The, the the next day, Uh, and my coach was like, "Hey, man, you're not taking any swings today. We gotta let that heal. You gotta be ready for, you know, second round," the whole nine. And I saw him stop my stepfather. A-and I gotta tell you, listen, I don't want everybody to think that, like, my stepdad was, like, this mean militant... It wasn't about that. It's just what the game did to him. It just changed him. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's what- I think happened to the parents because other than that, like, it-- he was always there to be like, "Hey, how can I help? What do I need to do for you?"

Kevin T. Mulhearn 19:37

A-and, and he, he also probably saw that you had a lot of potential, a lot of ability, and he wanted to foster it and, and, enhance it. He wasn't trying to hurt you, he was trying to help you. But sometimes the old school tough guy approach needs to be modified a little bit, you know, if if I could, I'm gonna tell you a few stories about my dad.

Joe Clemente 19:56

I definitely wanna hear 'em. Let's

Kevin T. Mulhearn 19:57

Yeah. So, uh, my dad, T-Thomas Lee Mulhern, uh, was, an only child and grew up in Brooklyn. He, uh, he played baseball on the high school team with Joe And I remember looking at my dad's yearbook he kept, and there's a big picture of him and Joe Torre and a couple other guys on the team. Said, "Oh, yeah, he's he's not BS-ing. This is true. He played with Joe Torre." Um, and we actually, played, Travel Ball, when we were eight or nine with Joe Torre's son, Michael, who was a wonderful kid. so so my dad actually hit over .400 as a, as a, a senior for St. Francis Prep in Brooklyn, and, uh, he was really into baseball. Um, one of the things that I remember very distinctly, uh, and this is is a story that that shaped the whole way I approach not just sports, but life and my career as a lawyer, everything. Uh, I was about 12 years old playing in a, in, a recreational basketball league And we had a, a foul shooting contest at halftime of the championship game. winner got a big trophy. The year before, the coach had just selected me, uh, to be their representative because I was generally the best foul shooter on the team. So I went to the contest uh, did pretty well. I think I came in second or third place out of out of eight or nine teams in the league. The next year, though, I think I'm about 13, maybe 14, and the coach says, "Okay, we're gonna, we'll do things a little differently This year we're gonna, uh, have a competition. 20 foul shots. Whoever makes the most goes to the competition." I remember saying, "Okay, no problem. I'll sh- shoot 20 foul shots. Maybe I'll make 14 or 15. We're good." Uh, I started, and I missed, uh, the first two or three. Uh, maybe I made one or two, and then I missed three or four in a row, and I, and I s- and I got disgusted. And I just started taking the ball and heaving it without even caring. Like, all right, I'm out. I'm just I just got so down on myself, just started Heaving it and missing wildly. I think out of 20 shots, I maybe made 6. And My father was watching in the balcony. He races down. he, he w- he was an, an Irishman with, with, uh, the fair skin, and when he got mad, he he turned purple, I saw h- I saw him storm down from the balcony, and his face was the color purple. And he grabs me by the lapel of my jersey and says, don't, don't let me ever see you do anything less than 100% on a sports field ever again." He said, "I swear to God, you ever do that, I ever see anything like that again, I don't care where it is, what, how old you are, what level of play you are, I'm gonna drag you off the field and, and do that immediately if I ever see anything less than 100% on, effort." and he had smoke coming out of his ears, he was so mad. Steaming. Uh, Steaming. and and I will tell you this, Joe, That is one of the benefits of the tough guy old school approach, because I can tell you my my whole life I've always tried to give 110% no matter what I do. I would think about that when I was playing sports in college or playing intramural football for my fraternity. I would think about that when I was working on a, legal brief or, or preparing for an argument or preparing for a trial. I was not gonna be outworked. whatever happened as far as the result sometimes was out of your control, but nobody was gonna outwork me, ever. Um, that was what I really tried to base my legal career on, that, okay, I might not be the smartest guy, although I'm not dumb, but I'm certainly gonna be the hardest-working guy. You're not gonna find anybody else who's gonna put in the time. and Kat will tell you, we would do a, a brief that was important. We would do 30 or 40 drafts because I wanted it to be perfect. It would be a midnight deadline for filing. I can't tell you how many times I filed it at 11:45 or 11:50 or 11:57 b- b- b- because we were s- we were struggling at the ver- till the very end to keep rolling those drafts out. And I can tell you, it doesn't always result in, in in great outcomes. I had... Uh, I've had some really bad setbacks and disappointments in my legal career. But I can say this, and I say this proudly, never ever did I do anything, less than 100%. And, and I used to always think about my dad. I used, about that that incident where where he came up with purple face and and implored me 110% all the time, n- nothing less is acceptable.

Joe Clemente 24:21

So that old, so that old school was a, was a positive, right? And that's what that's what we've been talking about. Like when you read the book, it, it's about being able to figure out having a balance, And being able to communicate and deal with your own kids or your athletes, That's something that you took with you forever. and and again, I, I was talking about my situation. My situation wasn't like that, but again, I, I still had to learn from it, but so did he, right? Because after that it was, you know, it was like, "Hey, man, I apologize," So like our situations were different, but that's something that you're gonna carry with you or you have carried with you forever. My situation on that, on that one incident, I carried with me, but knew that the outcome, uh, became okay because of how we dealt with it. So that, I think that's awesome, right? Being able to carry stuff like that

Kevin T. Mulhearn 25:11

I, I'll tell you another funny story My dad used to be the manager for the Cadets, which is a premium baseball organization in Brooklyn. Uh, uh, A lot of Major Leaguers out of that program. Joe Torre wayne Rosethal who played with me for five or six years. But my sophomore year in high school, We were just finishing up the season. They had the Babe Ruth championship game, and we played the Babe Ruth game on Sunday, and Saturday I had a football game for Poly Prep, and I was playing fullback. And I took a a handoff, uh, on a run up the middle. I got popped in the shoulder, and I don't think my shoulder pads were on right or what have you, but I I wind up breaking my clavicle. So very painful shoulder injury. I woke up the next day, and I couldn't even put on my jersey. Um, I I woke up in the m- uh, next morning, and I couldn't lift My arm was i- in extreme pain. So my dad comes down and he said, "Okay, boys, time to get going. I said, "Dad, I, I can't move my arm." He looks at me, he said, "Okay." "Put on a jersey. We might need you. we're we're we're missing a few guys." He was like, Miyagi's son, right? Here we

Joe Clemente 26:15

right? Here we go.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 26:16

Miyagi's son without, without that. So it took, it, took almost 10 minutes for me to put on my jersey. My brother, re- rest in peace, said-- well, he said, "Kevin, what are you doing? You can't do this." 'cause I was wincing in pain. It was extraordinary painful. It's a broken clavicle. And finally get my jersey on. we we go to the, the field. Wouldn't you know it, cadets have eight players and, and nine including me. My father looks at me, he said, "Kevin, you're in." I said, "Dad, I can't o- I can't raise my arm." He said, "What, what can I tell you? We need you. We have nine guys. We, you don't play, we're gonna forfeit." So I, so I'm dragging my arm out to left field. You know,

Joe Clemente 26:53

Like a lame horse, right?

Kevin T. Mulhearn 26:55

base- You're Wayne's world, right? See, I was I was, I was a second baseman at that time. So my father says, "Go play left field. Nobody's gonna hit the ball out there." You know what I mean? So first inning, bases loaded, two outs. Other team, um, Hits a screaming line drive to left field. I'm running in with the, with the arm shaking. and wouldn't you know it, I slide and I put my glove down 'cause I didn't have to raise my arm, and the ball just kind of finds its way into the glove. Out. Make the play. dad says, "Nice play, Kevin." I said, "Great." I I get up. my father batted me ninth First time up, I bunted Perfect bunt down the line. Guy's not playing me to bunt, they're playing deep at the third base. It was a pretty good hitter. I'm running down to first base, you know, you know, hugging my arm against my side, you know, get to first base safe. S- second time up, fourth inning or so, same thing. Uh, still playing deep. just just a knucklehead manager on the other team hasn't figured out that I'm that I'm a wounded horse. S- so I laid down the bunt again, nice bunt down third baseline, running down the side. uh, safe. Two for two, two bunt hits for the game like this. Uh, later in that inning, guy tries to hit-- hits the ball right at me, and it was one that I had to raise my arm over my head. Couldn't do it. It went like this. Ball sore- soars, soars over my head for a home run. So at that point, the coach realized that, uh, that I'm dealing with a wounded horse here on the other

Joe Clemente 28:20

Your main

Kevin T. Mulhearn 28:21

So the next time I get, I get up, the last time I get up, I re- I remember brought the, his outfielders and he put them like Eddie Cadill position, like 10 feet away from, from the catcher because they knew I couldn't swing the bat. So I hit a perfect bunt the third time, but the guy was playing five feet from home plate and he threw me out. And my my mother when I when when I came home that day, she said, "How'd the game go?" I'm like, "This is great, we won." She said, "L- look at your kid. He can't even lift his arm." And, And, my father was old school. I was gonna play. It was, I was the necessary guy for the, the team. And I,

Joe Clemente 28:55

first, man. Team

Kevin T. Mulhearn 28:56

I, remember that day very distinctly. Um, and was, that was the, funny side, the the positive side of old school. There was a negative side too. Uh, we talked about this last week a little bit. The criticism could be withering when I didn't perform. Um, I, I had a twin brother who I also was very competitive with. So, you know, if he he or I, you know, really fell down on the job and played poorly, we would hear about it from my father. And those were, those were difficult nights when he would go and, and talk to us about our failures. And a- again, you know, my father was a loving guy. He, he was a really present f- father. He was, out of all my kids' parents, I think my father was the one who was there more than anyone. And, and I just knew I had to adjust to the fact that, okay, if I'm not gonna do really well, I'm gonna hear about it. And I just had to develop a bit of a thick coat in order to handle that. Because I was a bit of a sensitive kid, and you don't like to be criticized by anyone, let alone the father. So I, I, I think my dad would've really benefited from reading "The Long Ride Home." I don't know if it would've changed much, but but think, um, at the end of the day, there is a, A deeper, better balance that can be struck. So I, I'd like you to talk, if you could for a little bit about, um, some of the old school- tough guy dads, and, well, I guess there are old school tough guy moms too. I I don't wanna... Uh, uh, your daughter's a cheerleader, so- Oh, dude I'm sure the the old school tough guy, tough tough gal moms are, are aplenty. why don't you talk about that a little bit, what you've experienced, uh, in your time as a coach and as and as a parent?

Joe Clemente 30:37

So again, I'll be the first one to tell you that my wife deals with all of my daughter's stuff when it comes to cheer. Um, you know, as a, from from the baseball side or or football side, listen, there, there's always going to be the parents that just don't get it. Okay? And we talk about this sometimes there's positive, sometimes there's negative, old school approach, tough guy approach, like I wanna be tough on. Again, I think you need to know the athlete and what they can handle, 'cause everyone has a breaking point, right? And I think that's what you and I talk about all the time, and what we talk about in the book, right? how do, how do you help kids, work through their, the situations that they're in without destroying them? That's all we're talking about here, right? We, we, we're not trying to blame people. We're not pointing fingers. We're just trying to help people, So, I deal with more of the the fathers. Um, but I am gonna tell you over the last couple years, the moms at baseball games have have started to reach another level also, and I think the environment that we're in is going to dictate how we act. You, you agree with that, right? m- if a dad acts a certain way, most of the time the kid is that way, okay? Because that's what he sees. If the dad starts to act like that, now the kid starts to act like that, well, the mom, Like, she's gotta fit the mold too, So now all of a sudden she starts to roll into that push, push, push, push. push. So again, I, I don't, I, I'm not here to point fingers, but I am gonna tell you that things have gotten really, really crazy. I've seen so many things live that I could tell you about. Like, like for instance, one of my softball players, she's seven, okay? And she loves the game. She's really good at it. She's athletic. But guess what? She's seven. She likes to go there and hang with her friends. It's, it's social time, And they're gonna go out and they're gonna play and they're gonna have fun, win, lose, or draw, okay? So I was like ...I was actually caught off guard with this one. So my friend calls me and says, y- you know, I'm... I said, "You sound like you're upset. What's going on?" She's like, "Yeah." She's like, "I'm pissed." I'm like, "Why are you pissed?" She's like, "Because the coach literally told the entire team today that they lost because they don't focus, that they're no good, that, it, they'll never be anything." And I'm like- "They're seven, right?" "Yeah, that makes no sense." I said, "So whoever that coach is, make sure you you don't play for them next year because that, they're not there to help kids." right? That, that is just an ego thing, and they're just there to try to boost their ego with wins and beat their chest. Um, like that is a-

Kevin T. Mulhearn 33:31

chasing chasing

Joe Clemente 33:32

girls. Yeah. Come on. They're seven, right? But you and I both see that. Like, we'll see that for kids that are seven, eight, nine, 10, 11. Again, 12 years old, you're the you're the superstar, right? That's where that bridge is really, really hard

Kevin T. Mulhearn 33:45

I have to tell you, I'm gonna give a plug in here to Jim Watica for a second because, you know, that out of all the coaches, you know, J- Jim Watica with his dad Joe, runs Watica Baseball Club, which Dennis played for for five years, and a lot of the Don Bosco kids played, uh, on the team as well. And I can tell you that Jim a- actually is tremendous at striking the right balance, and he never chases trophies. He never chases championships. He chases teaching kids how to do things the right way and developing kids and have a lot of fun while you're at it. that, um, Dennis' experience playing for Watica Baseball was tremendous at a- at, at all levels, and, uh, Jim and Joe get a lot of credit for that 'cause they're really two great people who have, actually have figured out the right balance.

Joe Clemente 34:31

Yeah, J- Jimmy and Joe are awesome. I mean, we've known Joe forever, right? Joe started the whole club showcase stuff. I mean, they're tremendous. And, you know, you talk about Jimmy, and I know we're gonna get into it later, but in the book you talk about, like, push and pull, right? And if you if you ever y- you could go to a field and you could tell which coaches use that method, like the push and pull method immediately, because y- you could see, You watch their reactions, you see how they coach, you see how they communicate with the kids. It's not about embarrassing them, and most most of the time those coaches have a good bead on the parents. Like, they talk to the parents like, "Hey, listen, this is what..." We have to work as a community, right? It, it takes a village, right? To be able to make this work. And again, you know, you'd asked me before, at, in cheer, It's vicious, It's vicious. But I understand, There's, there's 20 girls on a team, maybe guys and girls on a co-ed, and the routine has to be perfect, and if somebody doesn't show up... But, like, I, I saw, Like, there were times that my daughter showed up at practice and she was sick. Like, she was sick as a dog. She had the flu. Uh, she might've even had COVID. I don't even know, right? But they were like, "She has to be here. If she's not here, she, you know, she's not... We're kicking her off the team." I'm like, "Whoa." you know? And then what would happen is you sit in the stands, and this is why I stopped going. I stopped going to the events because I was there to see my daughter compete with her teammates, have fun. Like, I, I... Listen, we all want them to win. I don't want them not to win. But they work really, really hard, But I I, I stopped going because of all the things that were being said behind the scenes, right? Where, like, like, parents didn't even know who I was, right? Because my wife was the face, right? Like I said, God bless her, right? She took that role on. arou- like, you know, I would just walk by, like, I would hear parents say things that would, like, blow your mind. Like, wishing bad on other kids, like, on other athletes that they're, that they're performing with. And I'm like, "Whoa." the animosity here is, crazy. it was so thick you, you could cut it with a knife.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 36:39

Well, you, you read about some of those cheerleader stories in the news where- people get, like, criminally crazy

Joe Clemente 36:44

Cr- like, criminally

Kevin T. Mulhearn 36:46

......and up, uh, physically hurting other people who are competing with their daughters. Uh, and I, I saw that. I said, "They take that seriously?" And I talked to you and a few other people who have girls in cheerleading. Said, "Oh, yeah. It's, it's, it's insane. You think baseball's bad? Cheerleading's

Joe Clemente 37:02

Oh my

Kevin T. Mulhearn 37:02

Oh my God. So, and and that surprised me to hear that. As, as a, as a guy with no, no daughters, I didn't realize that the cheerleading co- competition was that

Joe Clemente 37:11

Oh, it's, it's... That, that's probably one of the roughest things that I've ever seen. you know, c- you know, you compare it like a couple weeks ago I was at a tournament, uh, I'm, I'm walking from field to field, and I'm getting ready to to go play. And I have this... I see this guy at the fence screaming, It's a strike," a strike!" Like from center field, like 200 feet away. "It's a strike. Call that

Kevin T. Mulhearn 37:37

I'm sure, I'm sure he had a better angle than the home plate ump

Joe Clemente 37:39

You know what I'm saying? And I'm, and I... Like, I got worried about the guy, so I'm like, "Dude, you all right, man?" He's like, "I, "I, just don't understand." They pay these guys to call strikes. That's a strike. And I'm like, "Oh." I was like, "Listen, man, you know, so they're, they're human, as I'm standing there talking to him, I'm watching, like, ball four, ball four, ball four, ball four, um, I'm like, "Dude, is your, is your son playing?" I was like, "Is he pitching?" He's like, "He's the pitcher." He's like, "But this guy won't call a strike." And dude, I'm telling you, there was, like, smoke coming from his ears, He's losing his mind. And I'm like, "Oh." I'm like, "He looked pretty young. Like, how old are they?" He's like, "Oh, my son's eight." I'm like, "This guy is a lunatic. That kid is gonna stop playing at the end of the year."

Kevin T. Mulhearn 38:27

He's lucky, lucky if he makes it to

Joe Clemente 38:29

the only guy in center field." There's a reason. There's a... Parents know. Like we're... Like, come on, man. Parents know the way they act. They're adults. Sometimes they like being the center of attention, okay? They like screaming. They like yelling. They like doing that 'cause it's an ego thing, right? "Oh, I, I'm gonna tell my kid." Everybody... Listen, for all of you guys that are out there that do that, I'm gonna just tell you something. All of us in the stands know what you're doing and think it's really dumb, right? Like, that's one of the dumbest things we've ever seen. So if you think, like, you're, you're, like, being cool about It it... No. It makes you look-

Kevin T. Mulhearn 39:14

there's, there's there's a whole different universe, Joe, a parent of a baseball player whose kid is a pitcher, And, and I, and I can tell you, and this is what I said last week, I was gonna talk about the ton of mistakes I made. where th-they really started coming out. When my kid started pitching, he was a good pitcher from nine to 12, nine to 13. By the time he got to high school, he, he, it, he didn't grow into the pitcher's body. He was outfielder's body and, uh, shifted from pitcher to outfielder. But he was a good pitcher when he was a kid, and, uh, I was crazy. I was a a lunatic when he used to pitch. I remember going to Ripken. in Maryland has this be- beautiful complex where they have miniature fields that mirror the the Major League fields. They have Yankee Stadium, they have Fenway Park, they have Wrigley Field, and they have Camden Yards. The main field, Camden Yards, was right u-underneath the the hotel. Um, and Dennis was pitching once on Camden Yards field in the early round game. Uh, and I went directly behind home plate, and I started screaming at the top of my lungs, "Use your legs, use your legs. Throw harder, throw harder." fi-finally, the boys, this is the Clarkstown Stars, uh, red team, coached by Brian O'Hare, whose boy pitched uh, Don Bosco, Dylan O'Hare. And Brian and Darren Epstein, Jeff Nevin, and Chris Conte were the coaches of this team. Great team, great group of guys, great group of kids. and I remember Darren had to come out from the dugout and said, "Kevin, you, you, you need to get-- You need to, to leave the space that you're in right now." I said, "What do you mean?" He said, "Y-you can't be doing this. You can't be saying, you know, 'Use your legs. Throw harder,' when you're standing 12 feet behind the backstop. It's distracting, it's not helping." So Darren, who's a good friend of mine, told me this, and I went to the other side and tried to be a little more quiet. I couldn't, couldn't couldn't really help yourself, that when the kid is pitching, every pitch is, is like life or death. um, for me it was anyway. And I was, I was so over the top, and my, my my poor kid, God forbid, if he was wild, he was walking a couple batters in a row, I I would just unleash, and it wasn't pleasant. Uh, and, and really, as I sit here now, having read your book and having the the benefit of maturity and hindsight and having grown a little bit myself, I think, I realize that it was really very unproductive, very counterproductive, and very unhealthy for my relationship with my kid. All of it was bad.

Joe Clemente 41:44

maybe a little maybe a little embarrassing too?

Kevin T. Mulhearn 41:46

Oh, I, I, I was embarrassed.

Joe Clemente 41:49

No, I'm talking about your kid.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 41:50

Well, was he embarrassed? uh,

Joe Clemente 41:52

You don't know, right? I'm sure he was.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 41:55

I'm sure he was. and there's, there I, I, I'll s- I'll say this, sometimes I got in his grill when I think I needed to. I remember once when he was playing with Clarkstown Stars Red and and he dogged it on a play. He didn't run hard to first base, and that's-- and y- you know my background with my own, my old man. Yep. And that drove me nuts, so I I went into the dugout and t- and told the same thing. I said, "Dennis, don't let me ever see you dogging it on a play again, ever." And I wanna talk to you about this for a second 'cause this is interesting. I've noticed something that drives me absolutely insane, and it's at all levels of baseball, including the major leagues. I call it the early peel off, where a guy hits a ground ball and doesn't even get halfway to the, to first base, and he peels off back into the dugout. That drives me absolutely insane. Drives me nuts, yeah. That, that, That, that, the guy can't run 90 feet hard to the bag every single time, whether the ball is pi- hit back to the pitcher or it's a one-hop to the first baseman. Run as hard as you can to first base every single time. The peel off And, you know, I hate to say this, some Yankees who do it quite a bit, Jazz Chisholm, he, he does a lot of peel offs I can't understand how any coach would tolerate that for a second. If, if my, one of my Little Leagues kids did that or my own son did that, I'd be in their face, and I think with, with justification. Again, attitude and effort. You can control attitude and you can control effort, and there's no reason that any baseball player at any level from eight years old until major leagues should ever be peeling off before they hit the first base. I can tell you at at Don Bosco, I know Mike Rooney and Mike Dwyer- Oh, yeah if they, if a kid peeled off, th- you know, good luck getting back on the field for two weeks. That, that just won't my own fa- my own father, when he was coaching baseball I, I did it once. I, I, I did it once on a ball hit to the pitcher. The guy threw the ball, I was out by f- 30 feet, 40 feet, peeled off. I can tell you that wasn't gonna happen again and and that was a lesson learned. Don't peel

Joe Clemente 43:55

Yeah, you were probably hungry that night when you went to bed.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 43:59

You were probably hungry that night when you ended up in the dugout. I, I was, I was, uh, hungry and my arm was a little sore,

Joe Clemente 44:02

That's the way it worked. But what you're, what you're talking about, like that hustle, that energy, and that effort, like those are controllable. that's-- I, I, think that's where, you know, like when you're coach, when-- as a coach or a parent, those are things that you can talk about, right? And you can be stern about it, right? We're not talking about don't be stern about it. They need to understand, right? Because those are things that are controllable. But I think the, the real issue, and, and that's why I wrote this, is when parents cannot separate, all right? This is, this is the biggest thing I... You always ask me this, is when they can't separate that their kid is out on the field doing everything they can to be successful, it's just not going their way that day, and that's where they start-- That, that's where poison starts to set in their mind, right? Like no kid goes to the mound not trying to throw strikes, right? No kid that just spent, uh, $3,000 over the winter in hitting lessons or they're still getting hitting lessons, goes to the plate not trying to hit the ball hard.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 45:17

if you don't criticize a kid for not trying, you're doing him a disservice. Okay. But criticism of lack of and and poor outcome, that's not okay, um, because th-that's something that the kid can't control. He's trying his best, just not having the day he wants. And, and it's, and it's a very big difference between, between criticizing effort and criticizing outcome.

Joe Clemente 45:51

Huge. Huge. I agree with you, Kevin, I mean, that's perfectly said that, that, that's where things start to change in an athlete's mind. If you, if the kid goes out there and he's giving it everything he has and he's still getting beaten up, that's where they start to separate and they're like, "Hey, I'm not having any fun anymore. I don't wanna be here anymore."

Kevin T. Mulhearn 46:09

I tell you, one of the things I like the most is I love watching a kid hit a ground ball to shortstop or third base and just dig. And he's gonna be out 99 out of 100 times, but I wanna see that kid dig as, as as fast as he can. Maybe he's only out by a step or half a step but I love that that extra effort, especially after a a bad outcome on, uh, with the bat, when you're not hitting the ball the way you want and you're still digging. And you know, I, I tried to-- When I coached little league, I tried to instill that in my my kids. I- one of my mantras was there's no walking on my baseball field. There's no reason to ever walk on a baseball field, ever. you you run or you jog, always. Um, and it's true of, I think, a a lot of sports. Effort has to be there. And we as parents have a duty I think to teach our kids h-how to give maximum effort, and that anything less than maximum effort is not acceptable. But we don't have a, a, an, an obligation to criticize every time things don't go well And your book actually teaches that really well. It ta- it teaches, um, the distinction between a supportive parent and a hypercritical negative parent. And I can tell you, folks who are, who are gonna look at this podcast and gonna read the, Joe's book, it's really worthwhile to learn that distinction. You agree?

Joe Clemente 47:31

Yeah, I think it's a necessity. Right? As a coach that's been doing this for a very long time, I I can see it. Like, I can see the way certain kids that have a, more supportive, family, how they act on the field, how they come to play, how they're, they, they're hustling, they're they're always doing what they need to do, whether they get hits that day or not, or they strike guys out or not. it's just their their mentality and how they show up and prepared, right? I can see the difference on the kids that are coming from a situation where the parents are different, Um, maybe a little less supportive and more on you and, like, they just, they show up and, like, you're always wondering, like, are they there? Like, are they there for them? Are they there for their parents? I mean, listen, we could tell right away when kids show up and they're actually there playing with us, right? on our on our Diamondbacks teams, our club teams, when, like, and be like, hey, the only reason why they're here is because their parents are bringing them here. And then the crazy part it's, they're there, they're not having any fun, they don't wanna be there, then as they come off the field, they're getting berated with, you know, like, why would you do that to the kid? Like, that's you, you you gotta talk to your kids and be like, "Hey, is this what you wanna do?" Don't guess about it, because a lot of them will be like, "Yes, I want to do it," bec- for you," right? For you. But if they're not doing it for them, like, they're doing it for the wrong reasons, and that's okay, right? There's so many things that, that are out there nowadays that kids wanna do and be good at and enjoy, you know? And honestly, between you and I, Kev, that'll actually make life at home much better for them, Because it's a uh, it's a more positive for for everyone.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 49:19

somebody told me, uh, a friend of mine told me after looking at our preview of the podcast that one of the keys as a parent the, is that the k- the kid's desire to get better has to be greater than the parent's desire for the kid to get better. That the, the needs to be supportive of that drive, but not fuel it. Um, and my friend Steve Carino from Muhlenberg College came up with that one, and I thought that was really spot on.

Joe Clemente 49:42

He's spot on, dude. Spot on. The bottom line is that when when you have to drag your kids to go work out, it's over. If they're dragging you, they got a shot It's, it's that simple, The, it, it-

Kevin T. Mulhearn 49:56

Do you see that? Do you see that with kids who are who who just don't wanna do it anymore?

Joe Clemente 50:01

I see it a lot. I I actually think that, um, uh, kids that are talented that don't wanna do it anymore, it, it's be- it's to the point of where they're not having any any fun because the parents recognize how good their kid is, right? Or how good they can be, and the pressure is just twice as much as it would be if they were just okay. So, like, parents are trying to get it out of the the kid. and Be like, "Hey, you gotta go do this. you gotta go do that. You gotta do that, I'm telling you right now. Parents, I'm telling you right now, if you gotta do that, you're, you're in the wrong sport. Because ultimately they're gonna wake up one day and be like, "I don't care anymore. I'm not having any fun." And they realize that they're doing it more for the parents than they are for themselves.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 50:47

For the parents than they are for themselves So Joe, i- if you had one tip, one lesson to give to the tough guy old school uh, what would it be?

Joe Clemente 50:51

So I, again, dealing with a lot of old school coaches and stuff like that the best ones that I've had are the ones that know their athletes and understand, like, where they're at and how far they can go, right? So like, what they need to, do to, like, push them and then pull them back in, right? And be like, "Hey, I'm gonna push you, I'm gonna push you, and you're gonna keep... you know, I need you to do this. Let's get th- get after this. You got... I'm gonna be hard on because I, I expect more from you 'cause you're, you could be great." But then when they do it- and they, they accomplish the goal that you gave them, now you gotta be able to say, "Hey, awesome job, man. I'm super proud of you." N- nothing more than that. Like, "Hey, let's keep working hard," right? You've done what I've asked you "And, and listen, I'm super proud of you." And the parents have to understand that too. They also have to understand, right Kev, that if you have an old school coach, okay, and he's hard, and you know that before you send your kid anywhere, right? So like don't sit there and be like, "Oh, well, I didn't know that that guy was so hard on my kid." No. you you knew, right? you you knew that because you wanted... Most of the parents send kids to programs like that because they want the disciplinary, right? They, they want the discipline side. I want my kid to be more disciplined because they don't wanna do it, right? They didn't do it. Okay? But now what happens is, where the, where the mistake happens, is that you have the old school guy who's putting pressure, push, push, push, push, push, no pull. And now you go home, the kid goes home, and the parents are now like, "Well, if the coaches can do it, I'm gonna do it."

Kevin T. Mulhearn 52:31

push,

Joe Clemente 52:32

Yeah. So like there's gotta be a pull somewhere that someone's gotta be be able to say, "Hey, man, I'm, I'm super proud of you." And I think, you know, we... I pride myself, or I try to pride myself, that's how I coach, right? I I know my kids first of all. I know everything about my kids. I know what to expect. I know what I'm... You know, what they're good at, what their their, their faults or limit- limitations are. And then what I do is I go set that up, 'cause I wanna set them up for success, right? Now I'm gonna push them to get to that point where I know that they can handle it and they're gonna be successful, And once they get there, I need to reel them back in and be like, "Hey man, you did an awesome job. I'm super proud of you. Let's keep, let's keep going, right? "Let's keep going. You good with that? Yeah, let's go. All right. I'm gonna keep pushing. you." And I tell them. I'm like, "Hey, listen, I'm, I'm not always gonna show up and be your friend," right? Because if I show up and I be your friend, that means that I'm not doing my job as a coach and making you better. But at the end of the day, when you do what you have what the the goals that we've set, I'm gonna be the first to let you know how awesome You did. You know what I'm

Kevin T. Mulhearn 53:34

You know what I'm saying? So how should a parent's behavior be different from a coach in that context?

Joe Clemente 53:42

So, uh, the parents are, again, are, are, have to be parents, right? They have to be able to allow their kids to come home and have a safe haven a little bit. and I'm not saying that they don't get to talk about it, they don't But like, if a kid or an athlete always is getting pushed from both sides, eventually s- the bag's gonna burst and they, they don't wanna do it no more. So-

Kevin T. Mulhearn 54:03

You push him right out the door into a c- a career as a pianist. It's something, right? I, I s- I used to always joke when D- when Dennis was not doing well in baseball. I said, "You know, you can always play violin." and, and he he used to get furious about that 'cause he knew that he wanted to play and m- my encouraging him to play violin was really a, a subtle, maybe not s- so subtle i- insult.

Joe Clemente 54:26

you've got a, a... You gotta... I gotta tell this real quick Really good friend of mine, awesome coach, unfortunately, um, passed away a few years ago, awesome dude. Okay? As a coach, really, really hard. On his kids, savage. Like, like crazy. Okay? I'll never forget this. His team was working out at my facility, And his, his son comes in, And they're all, they got all their bags lined up. And I'm sitting there I'm, uh, I'm walking past the bags and on the one bag I see a baby rattle Like, a rattle. So I'm standing there and I'm I'm watching. You know what I'm getting at, right? Yeah, So I'm, I'm, sitting here going, "Like, a baby rattle. Why would they have a baby rattle?" So practice gets done, so I grab him and I'm like... I'm like, "Dude," I'm like, I was like, "Is there a congratulations? Like, did you have a kid that I didn't know about?" I said, "Why has he got a rattle on his bag?" And he looks me dead in the face, he goes, "'Cause he sucked last game." And I said, "What, what are you talking about?" He's like, "He didn't get a hit." I was like, "Okay." He's like, "Yeah," he goes, "He don't get a hit, he's gotta wear that rattle." I said, "That's what you make your kid do?" "Wear a baby rattle?" I said, "You know that's really loud." He goes, "Yep." He goes, "I want everybody to know." And I looked at him, I said, "Listen, dude." I said, "You know I love you." I said, you gotta, you gotta take a step back. Your kid's a really good player, and, and all that's gonna do is, like, embarrass him and make him nuts." And he was like, "Y- you think that would embarrass him?" I said, "I'll tell you what. Let's take the rattle off and, and pin it to your chest," you know what I'm saying? "While you're coaching and walking around work and stuff like that and see how you feel." He's like, "Yeah. Yeah, I guess you didn't I didn't really think about it like that." You know? And he's cool. Like, he was one of the g- But to his kid You know what I'm saying? Like, to his kid, like I was like, "Oh my God, this kid's gonna..." You know, I, I didn't know if he was gonna show up the next time in a hula skirt or something. Like, what are you

Kevin T. Mulhearn 56:26

is the kid still playing?

Joe Clemente 56:27

Yeah. Well, not anymore, but- but he played, he played high school baseball, did really well. You know, he, he lost his dad at, a, at a young age. It was hard, and he was a good dude. A- but even him as a, as a great coach, he was a great coach, but to his own kid Like, he would never do that to one of the other kids. Why would you do it to your kid? So, like, you talk about that, you know? And you realize that as parents, like, If I'm gonna have-- My kid's gonna come home and I'm gonna treat them like that? Like, that, that, that's just, that's beyond crazy.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 57:01

So I wanted to thank you, Joe. This was, again, a lot of fun and hopefully e-educational and informative for our viewers. Um, we're really excited to be m-moving forward on this, podcast, journey. I I think the podcast, uh, allows us to reach a lot of people who, um, who are looking for some kind of guidance as to how they as parents can help their kids shine in youth sports. that's our- Absolutely ......that's our goal, and we're gonna have these continued conversations, which uh, hopefully it's gonna help people with the perspective that they need to be the best parents they can be. Again, um, 100% effort at everything. Part of the 100% effort also goes to parents. We're asking parents to make the best effort they can make as far as how to help their kids when they play in sports, and your book goes a long way towards that. So I thank you, Joe. This was fun. Uh, to our viewers, thank you for tuning in. Uh, looking forward to next week's episode, and keep moving forward. Thank you. Signing off. Thanks, Joe.

Joe Clemente 58:14

Thank you.

Kevin T. Mulhearn 58:16

Thanks for joining us for another episode of foward. If today's conversation helped you, we'd love for you to subscribe and share it with someone who cares about developing better athletes and better people. foward is a Hard Knock Press publication where we're building books, conversations, and ideas that challenge conventional thinking and help people grow. Until next time, keep moving forward